New machine, is this worth it?

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  1 Week Ago
Originally Posted by LukeLetellier: If you're using Arnold, you'll definitely want the higher Cinebench amount.

As for X-Particles, I have dual 3.1 Gz Xeons, and I'm very content with xp speed.

Thanks, Luke.
I assume when you refer to the CB and Arnold you are referring to the multi-core score, not the single-core score, right?

@ Decade: I'm a little confused by your post. It seems you are saying that Intel is not a clear winner anymore, but isn't what Matthew implied as well?

Anyway, after this thread, I'm not so sure about Intel at this point. Thanks to the insights you guys shared with me, I kept searching and reading more about the AMD and, well, I must admit I'm impressed. I might actually end up going with the TR!

Thanks.

P.S.
And speaking of CB CPU beingpushed, here's an interesting score.
This one, on the other hand, caught my attention because of the cooling system!
 
  1 Week Ago
Originally Posted by dsp_418:
@ Decade: I'm a little confused by your post. It seems you are saying that Intel is not a clear winner anymore, but isn't what Matthew implied as well?
I was just pointing out that the single core is 14% slower, not 20% slower, unless my maths is off.
But yes, I basically agree with him, I'm just leaning a bit more towards the AMD than he is.
Anyway, money where my mouth is, I ordered a 16-core threadripper, motherboard & RAM today, to replace my 5-year old 6-core Intel.
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  1 Week Ago
Originally Posted by Decade: I was just pointing out that the single core is 14% slower, not 20% slower, unless my maths is off.
But yes, I basically agree with him, I'm just leaning a bit more towards the AMD than he is.
Anyway, money where my mouth is, I ordered a 16-core threadripper, motherboard & RAM today, to replace my 5-year old 6-core Intel.

Oh, that's interesting!
Would you mind sharing your experience after you receive it?
Like I said, at this point, I'm really considering the TR. The only thing I'm a little confused is the configuration of the components as it seems it needs a good cooling system (I think the TR already comes with an "adapter"?), and also figure out what type of ram to use.
I would appreciate that!

Thanks
 
  1 Week Ago
yeah, googling around seems like threadripper gets you better bang for your buck. I vaguely remember there being some limit with ram amount or pci lanes, but can't seem to find any information to back this up, maybe it was the earlier threadripper?

I guess its been out for a while now so most software vendors have adapted, but i remember cinema4d wouldn't work with threadripper when it first launched. they fixed it pretty quickly, i think a month or so, but more niche programs could potentially have compatibility issues?

maybe something unforseen like encoding video? or even the embree tech that is inbuilt into cinema's physical render. i don't know what arnold uses or takes advantage of.

i would def get it as a render node, but not sure i'd use it as my primary machine.

[edit]: never trust anyone who suggests you get a xeon, they don't know what they are talking about. Only benefit of xeons and ECC memory is in extremely accurate fields, like weather forecasting, financial forecasting and shit like that, where a millionth of a decimal can have serious consequences.

[edit2]: clarification 3 posts down.

Last edited by AlekseyVoz : 1 Week Ago at 11:35 PM.
 
  1 Week Ago
Originally Posted by AlekseyVoz: [edit]: never trust anyone who suggests you get a xeon, they don't know what they are talking about. Only benefit of xeons and ECC memory is in extremely accurate fields, like weather forecasting, financial forecasting and shit like that, where a millionth of a decimal can have serious consequences.

Depends on your situation. Before threadripper made its appearance this year, if you needed a smaller number of nodes** but a high amount of Cinebench point on a renderfarm, Xeons were your best option.

** For example, Arnold costs $600/node/year - a farm of smaller nodes would eat up a lot of money over time just in subscriptions. Houdini indie is limited to six nodes total. There's also physical space in your office & power consumption to consider, Windows Pro licenses (for remote access), network I/O....

There's also the reality that if your primary workstation goes down (which happened to me last year due to a power surge that went right through my 'high end' CyberPower UPS), you're simply out of luck until you can diagnose the problem and get it fixed. With at least a Xeon machine as a node, I had a full backup ready and didn't have any significant delays in my (very busy) workload at the time.
 
  1 Week Ago
@dsp_418
I'll be sure to post back with my results. But it may be a few weeks (or even early Jan) because although all the main kit arrives next week, I am re-using my very nice water cooler from my current system.
However, it needs an adapter bracket for this new socket. It's very cheap but unfortunately they don't sell in the UK where I am, so I have to wait for a delivery from a US E-Bay seller.

I am cheaping out a bit on my setup - by using just 32gb of 2400mhz RAM in Dual-channel configuration. This can be considered slightly sub-optimal because Threadripper will happily support Quad-channel RAM at higher speed. But I think I will only lose a few % performance & RAM at the moment is very expensive, so I can save a lot of money this way. RAM prices tend to fluctate over time, so when it gets cheap again, I can always replace with something better/ add more.

In the same way, rather than getting one of the ultra-fast new SSDs that Threadrippper supports, I'm just going to keep using my standard SSD I have now - because it's quick enough or me & my use-pattern doesn't require very fast I/O (ie I don't do a lot of video editing or heavy AE work).

@AlekseyVoz
In fact with PCI-e lanes, the opposite is true - The AMD offers more PCI-e lanes than the Intels & they offer the full 60 lanes through all the Threadripper chips - where intel start at, I think, 48 & reduce them as you go down the range.
Likewise, you can have tons of RAM, however I think Threadripper generally, supports slower RAM speed than the Intel competition - above 3000mhz can be tricky, form the little I've looked into it.

I wouldn't worry too much about compatability - it will have software it excels at & software it falls a bit short at vs the Intel, depending on instruction sets, architecture, chipset etc. But it's going to deliver pretty good performance in all areas (As will it's Intel rival).

That's what's so exciting about Threadripper & Intel's response - we are getting core counts & platform stuff like PCI-E lanes, high end ssd connectors etc that equal the server stuff but without the bits we don't really need, that bump up the price hugely. The 'affordable workstation' has taken a massive leap forward this year - we can build really beastly machines for semi-reasonable money.
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Last edited by Decade : 1 Week Ago at 10:51 PM.
 
  1 Week Ago
ok, fair point about the xeons. if you need the highest possible cinebench score in one machine, then xeons make sense. especially if you have no financial constraints.

still though for the price of one dual xeon machine, you can build atleast 2x i7 nodes with equal or higher total performance..

but yeah do the numbers. cinebench scors to $ ratio.

my point was that for the same cinebench score xeons offer us graphics people no advantage.
 
  5 Days Ago
Originally Posted by Decade: I know you know your stuff on hardware but :
165 single core vs 190 single-core - That makes the Threadripper just 14% behind on single core, right ?
And 3000 vs 2450 leaves the Intel 18% behind on multi-threaded.
I'm not sure the Intel makes a convincing case even at the same price, let alone at 50% extra.
Still that's the chip only. Supporting mobo & RAM is likely similar for both & I guess that dilutes the importance of the price difference on the chip.
Even so, I just can't see past the 16-core Threadripper for CG work on price/ performance right now.

Eh, whats 5% between friends.

Personally I value my single core speed quite a bit, for my work render speed is of course important, but single threaded speed affects every action in every piece of software. That said, I'd go with thread ripper and pocket the $500, or use that cash elsewhere for further upgrades, probably looking at a nice nvme pcie ssd drive.

When comparing prices, don't fall into the common trap of just comparing part prices. If I said Chip A runs at 3GHz and costs $5, or chip B runs at 4GHz and costs $10. You could easily say Chip B isnt worth 100% extra price for 33% extra performance. But if you then took the entire system price and it were $2005 for 3GHz vs $2010 for 4GHz, you'd be mad to pick the slower system. When looking at complete builds, always compare the complete price with the overall final performance, otherwise you get a distorted picture and end up cheaping out of parts where you really shouldn't.
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www.3dfluff.com
 
  5 Days Ago
Originally Posted by dsp_418: Thanks, Luke.
I assume when you refer to the CB and Arnold you are referring to the multi-core score, not the single-core score, right?

@ Decade: I'm a little confused by your post. It seems you are saying that Intel is not a clear winner anymore, but isn't what Matthew implied as well?

Anyway, after this thread, I'm not so sure about Intel at this point. Thanks to the insights you guys shared with me, I kept searching and reading more about the AMD and, well, I must admit I'm impressed. I might actually end up going with the TR!

Thanks.

P.S.
And speaking of CB CPU beingpushed, here's an interesting score.
This one, on the other hand, caught my attention because of the cooling system!

Intel has been the only sensibly choice in 3D for half a decade, AMD simply fell miles behind. Now with their latest lineup theyre not only competitive, theyre right on intel's heels and have forced them to lower their prices and release their new products early. If it weren't for AMD we'd likely be getting milked for 6 core chips for years to come. Intel knew AMD was coming back and did their 8 and 10 core i7 chips to try and preemptively screw AMD over, but AMD surpassed their expectations and had a whole lineup of even more impressive CPUs.

You should seriously consider both lineups as its no longer as simple as just picking intel anymore. I wont upgrade myself for another 2-3 years but when I do I will seriously be considering AMD again; I haven't picked AMD since way back with the Athlon64, but they have now woken up.

The intel CB score linked is of course amazing but its not a system any mortal will ever purchase.
__________________
Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com
 
  5 Days Ago
And speaking of cost, the TR which was $800 only a week ago, is now pricer, closing the gap cost wise with the i97920x. I'll prep two configurations to see what's the final price of the two boxes.
 
  3 Days Ago
I quickly picked the components on PcPartPicker. The difference is little, about $50 only.
Money aside, the doubt is not about the speed, as I understand the TR is just a great choice. The doubt is about stability.
I'm reading about users going through annoying situations with AMD and hardware/win10 related issues. That's the part I don't like.
If stability is at stake, I'd rather sacrifice some CPU cores and get the Intel. Personally,
 
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