Cinema 4D R17 announced

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  08 August 2015
Render layers looks great. I've been hoping for something like this for ages.

Always up for new shaders. The variation shader will be useful.

But "New shelving system", as a feature?
 
  08 August 2015
@brasco: what full feature list do you mean? Is there more than the pages linked by Srek? The cineversity videos basically reflect what is on these pages (from the ones I watched already)
 
  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by christianS: @brasco: what full feature list do you mean? Is there more than the pages linked by Srek? The cineversity videos basically reflect what is on these pages (from the ones I watched already)

I only linked to the overview, the complete list is here
http://www.maxon.net/en/products/ge...7-features.html
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  08 August 2015
I will repeat what I posted over at Cafe. This release demonstrates the downside of Maxon's complete lack of communication with it's users. There are some substantial improvements here - the Take system looks good and the improved spline tools appear to be impressive. But they're not features that users have been requesting and if you look at the list of Cons in the Pros and Cons thread over at Cafe, none of them have been addressed, not a single one. If, like myself, you're frustrated at having to shuttle between Cinema and another program to do UV work or you want a full blown preview renderer like modo has you're going to look at this release and wonder what the Maxon reps mean when they get all huffy and insist that Maxon does listen to it's users.

Now I know why Kiwi jumped ship.
 
  08 August 2015
This seems as a solid upgrade so far, reading the full feature list, there are a lot of gems.

Will there be any info about houdini bridge and its development further? Will this now fall into yearly upgrades or will it be upgraded parallel?
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  08 August 2015
Ok the new spline and modeling features are really cool. Spline snap with the Cloner is great. Like zbrush but better
 
  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by sandidolsak: This seems as a solid upgrade so far, reading the full feature list, there are a lot of gems.

Will there be any info about houdini bridge and its development further? Will this now fall into yearly upgrades or will it be upgraded parallel?

NoseMan post at sidefx forum(main forum for communication about h.engine for c4d, maxon has not own), that soon will be new version.When - no eta
 
  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by arail: There are some substantial improvements here - the Take system looks good and the improved spline tools appear to be impressive. But they're not features that users have been requesting and if you look at the list of Cons in the Pros and Cons thread over at Cafe, none of them have been addressed, not a single one.


If you have been following the development of Cinema over the years I think you will find that the Take System was one of the MOST requested features ever.

Cheers, Simon W.
 
  08 August 2015
Man, this is really bad. For me, it feels like r17 is a "non-release", seriously. Feels more like a small update that should be free.

The only relevant new feature is the render layers system.

Otherwise, as usual, a bunch of things no one asked and NONE of the things EVERYONE asked.

No improved viewport with AO (c'mon, look at Element 3D, a Maya viewport 2.0 or even Pixelbergs plugin!), no PBR materials, no improved UV tools, no improvements in Bodypaint, no decent retargeting tool for character animation, no Delta Mush deformer, no better skinning options, nothing new in Xpresso, etc...

I mean, I still love Cinema 4D, but I seriously don't think there is any reason for someone to update past r15.
 
  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by arail: I will repeat what I posted over at Cafe. This release demonstrates the downside of Maxon's complete lack of communication with it's users. There are some substantial improvements here - the Take system looks good and the improved spline tools appear to be impressive. But they're not features that users have been requesting and if you look at the list of Cons in the Pros and Cons thread over at Cafe, none of them have been addressed, not a single one. If, like myself, you're frustrated at having to shuttle between Cinema and another program to do UV work or you want a full blown preview renderer like modo has you're going to look at this release and wonder what the Maxon reps mean when they get all huffy and insist that Maxon does listen to it's users.

Now I know why Kiwi jumped ship.


Render layers and animation improvements have been the highest requested features for years. Before object handling and uvs(these requests have been there since before bodypaint became irrelevant).

Also consider that pro and con list was started very late in the r17 cycle so to expect those newer requests to somehow make it into r17 in a month or two is a little silly. R17 was likely already set in stone by the time that thread started.

So hold off that judgement until r18. Thats when you could make that call imo.

For me, this is a deceptively solid release. The animation improvements help a lot. They help character animators and morion graphics artists and anyone doing animation. The takes and render tokens address some long standing requests from people.
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  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by xfon5168: So hold off that judgement until r18. Thats when you could make that call imo.


Pretty sure that I saw this last year, except the number was different.
 
  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by Srek: I only linked to the overview, the complete list is here
http://www.maxon.net/en/products/ge...7-features.html

Thanks Srek. I see there is also the product comparisson. It seems this misses the variation shader though (I guess this will be Studio only)
 
  08 August 2015
The request for info, new shaders will get reflection to c4dtoa or any 3dparty renderers.
Most of company adopt their stuff(coz it's their code) to another stuff
i mean these and others

  • New Variation Shader
  • New Display Color Shader
  • Filter Shader: New Checkbox to switch color grading on/off
  • New Formula Shader
  • New Lens Distortion Shader
  • New Lens Distortion render effects

Aixponza switched to Octane and C4DtoA. C4DtoA has lack support from maxon, c'mon you should

Last edited by yomash : 08 August 2015 at 01:35 PM.
 
  08 August 2015
"MAXON Announces Milestone Cinema 4D Release 17"

Not the headline I would have picked.

Finally R17 is announced. As most people would have figured by now I'm less than impressed with R17 (and Maxon) hence my decision to jump ship to Modo 901. In my opinion R17 is the weakest full version upgrade that Maxon have put out apart from a couple of .5 upgrades when they used to do .5 upgrades every second year. To me it's pretty much a .5 version and I think Maxon should have called it R16.5. Problem there of course is they wouldn't be able to charge regular upgrade prices and MSA renewal prices.

Let's step back a bit as I'm now in a position to talk much more freely than I have been able to talk. I'm still under the Non disclosure agreement so can't discuss what went on behind the scenes in Beta testing. Pretty boring anyway. With R15 I was really impressed with it as finally the polygon modelling tools were getting some attention and we were given the outstanding new Bevel tool. I was a bit disappointed that Bodypaint didn't receive any attention. At the time I was also running Modo 601, having had all versions from 301 upwards. Because I now thought C4D's modelling tools were getting some attention I sold my copy of Modo 601 since modelling is my main interest. I also packed in being a Modo Beta tester although I hadn't been doing it for long.

R16 came along which I thought was a bit light with enhancements and I was disappointed that Bodypaint hadn't received any love apart from a new UV Peeler. But again, the modelling tools received some love with the great new Polygon pen tool, bevel deformer and Modo 801 wasn't the big upgrade that 901 is. So okay R17 should see more polygon modelling tools and maybe at long last Bodypaint updated since we'd seen something in R16. I also expected the Reflectance channel to be tidied up and maybe the inclusion of a material node system. Nope, nothing.

So my run down of R17:

No polygon modelling tool enhancements of note except new spline drawing tools which are quite good but I found to be a bit clunky to use. If anyone has used the excellent spline drawing tools in MoI (Moment of Inspiration) you'll understand what I'm getting at. Still the spline drawing tools are a welcome addition but I fully expected one or more polygon modelling tools to get some attention. Nope, almost nothing. C4D still doesn't have a proper symmetry system and we're at R17. Pitiful.

Bodypaint / UV editing - zero enhancements. Not acceptable in my book especially considering the price Maxon charges for Cinema 4D. Maxon needs to make a public statement about the status of Bodypaint / UV editing. Are they going to upgrade it?

Take system aka Render layer system. Best new feature / enhancement of R17. The developer has done a superb job. Credit where credit is due. However many people could be like me and not really need a render layers system. Professional users however will love it.

Viewport speed / lots of object handling - no enhancements that I'm aware of. No Open Subdiv.

Material system - Reflectance channel unchanged as far as I can tell. No nodes system.

Timeline enhancements - Good enhancements but years overdue.

Particles, MoGraph, Hair, Dynamics - No changes.

Sculpting - Yet another set of incremental enhancements so good job here.

Houdini engine integration - great but not something that interests me.

Miscellaneous enhancements - yup, a few handy ones but nothing major. Obj support for materials - about time!! New shaders are quite cool.

I can only assume that a lot of Maxon's developers are working on a new core, new Bodypaint, material node system as what's in R17 doesn't reflect the number of developers that work for Maxon or that's my impression. I base that assumption on the number of developers that they have been recruiting over the last year or two (and that's based on publicly posted job vacancies). In my opinion Maxon should do a technology preview at Siggraph of what they're working on. This may stop people jumping ship as I'm predicting some may now do or alternatively skip upgrading. Now is also the time that Maxon needs to start communicating with their users and I mean in social media. We've had a bit of communication lately but users need some actual answers rather than "We're listening".

So for me, I've given up on waiting for Maxon to upgrade the things that I want to see upgraded. Even if R18 is the mother of all upgrades it will be too little and too late. For me I can get most of what I want now with Modo 901. Sure, it isn't perfect but it needs a heck of a lot less than what C4D does to make it truely great. The few issues like stability, lack of parametric objects (e.g. text), viewport speed aren't the huge list that Maxon has with C4D to bring it up to date. BTW since the recent service pack for Modo 901 I've not had a single crash with it so again things like stability are things that can be fixed in a reasonable amount of time. Rewriting the core and Bodypaint could take a long time hence nothing yet again this year.

I'll be interested to see what people who have to pay for upgrades / MSA's think of R17. Do you think you're getting good value for money? I can't answer that as I haven't had to pay for my copies of Cinema 4D since I bought XL 8.5 a long time ago. My guess is it will depend on what you do. I think many hobbyists maybe scratching their heads wondering if it's worth upgrading or not whereas Pro users who will likely use the new Take system will be reasonbably happy. Fun times ahead over the next few days reading people's impressions of it.

BTW I have zero knowledge of what's in R18. Beta testers aren't told what's coming in future versions. Your guess is as good as mine.

Nigel / 3DKiwi
 
  08 August 2015
Originally Posted by xfon5168: Also consider that pro and con list was started very late in the r17 cycle so to expect those newer requests to somehow make it into r17 in a month or two is a little silly. R17 was likely already set in stone by the time that thread started.

So hold off that judgement until r18. Thats when you could make that call imo.



Except that the requests in that thread were not new. All of them were requests that had been made repeatedly by users for a long time.
 
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