C4D eats up a lot of ram?! Keeps Freezing / Very slow response?

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  01 January 2014
C4D eats up a lot of ram?! Keeps Freezing / Very slow response?

Dear all,
I am recently trying to draw a strawberry. I have created a berry by applying bulge to a circle which is then added to a subdivision surface (4, 4 setting). The seed is drawn the same way and the cloned onto the vertices by the cloner. I then apply collision to the berry surface with the cloned seeds being the collider. This creates a berry with about 3-400 hundred seeds.

I am not sure what is happening here, every time I activate the collision deformer, my pc just freezes, I have disabled the threaded optimization option of my GTX 660 ti 2gb card as i heard it s not compatible. One important thing I should mention is that the strawberry is now made up of 12 million quads (which i think is a lot) I just can't believe it needs that many polygons to draw a strawberry. Or am I doing the wrong way here?

I have a i5 4670k with 16 gb vengeance ram, and a gtx 660 ti 2g, which i believe is enough for drawing this. Any help is highly appreciated ! I wish my words are understandable.
 
  01 January 2014
That sounds like a very, very detailed strawberry. Your seeds should be as low poly as you can get away with, and they should be instanced in the cloner. If you made each seed a separate object that is definitely the problem as C4D doesn't do well with tons of objects in a scene. If that isn't the problem, and you can't reduce the poly count of the seeds because you have a very close camera shot, you will have to lower the subdivisions in the editor, though it may still crash at render time if you are running out of ram.

I have been running C4D for years on 8GB of ram, and I've never had any issues unless I am trying to do a very detailed fluid simulation in Dpit Effex. I'm betting you are over detailing your model.
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by saldtch: 12 million quads (which i think is a lot) I just can't believe it needs that many polygons to draw a strawberry. Or am I doing the wrong way here?


Youre applying softbody collision detection to a 12 million polygon strawberry?

This is the 3d equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb to catch the road runner.
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www.3dfluff.com
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by imashination: This is the 3d equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb to catch the road runner.


Well all else has failed, so can you blame the coyote for trying the nuclear option?


Back on topic - a good trick to do when you need to solve cloth or soft body dynamics for a hires mesh like this is to do the sim on a lower detail mesh, then use a Surface deformer to wrap the hires mesh onto the lowres one so that it deforms with it.

12 million seems like overkill no matter what the model though IMO, I'm sure that could be optimized and displacement maps could make up the difference if needed.

Cheers,
Brian
 
  01 January 2014
Thumbs down

What Brian wrote! If you have ZBrush, then load the bugger in there and use the polygon reducer to kill the majority of your overhead, then use the automatic remesher in there so deformations still work nicely. And btw.... The 'seeds' are actually the fruit!
Happy new year y'all
Rainer
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  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by PhoenixCG: That sounds like a very, very detailed strawberry. Your seeds should be as low poly as you can get away with, and they should be instanced in the cloner. If you made each seed a separate object that is definitely the problem as C4D doesn't do well with tons of objects in a scene. If that isn't the problem, and you can't reduce the poly count of the seeds because you have a very close camera shot, you will have to lower the subdivisions in the editor, though it may still crash at render time if you are running out of ram.

I have been running C4D for years on 8GB of ram, and I've never had any issues unless I am trying to do a very detailed fluid simulation in Dpit Effex. I'm betting you are over detailing your model.


Thanks for the reply guys!
First I don't find it very detailed to my eyes (I feel I should not use the collision deformer) The seeds are just instance of one single seed which I also applied the random effector to randomized the rotation and the size.

Actually when it freezes, my pc is not in the state of out of ram. My CPU is usually at 25% and C4D usually using 3 gbs of ram.

It should be either my berry is over details and I am using the wrong method to draw it.
Or it can be an incompatibility of my graphics card, I dunno...
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by imashination: Youre applying softbody collision detection to a 12 million polygon strawberry?

This is the 3d equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb to catch the road runner.


not that many for the berry and the seed, they are both about 140,000 quads, which i think is a lot, still.
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by Horganovski: Well all else has failed, so can you blame the coyote for trying the nuclear option?


Back on topic - a good trick to do when you need to solve cloth or soft body dynamics for a hires mesh like this is to do the sim on a lower detail mesh, then use a Surface deformer to wrap the hires mesh onto the lowres one so that it deforms with it.

12 million seems like overkill no matter what the model though IMO, I'm sure that could be optimized and displacement maps could make up the difference if needed.

Cheers,
Brian


Thanks! But ... lol I am still sort of new to C4D, let me try to understand your method and hopefully I can lower the poly counts!
How many polygons on average does an object like that has you presume?
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by LemonNado: What Brian wrote! If you have ZBrush, then load the bugger in there and use the polygon reducer to kill the majority of your overhead, then use the automatic remesher in there so deformations still work nicely. And btw.... The 'seeds' are actually the fruit!
Happy new year y'all
Rainer


Thanks but I don't have ZBrush... will definitely try this out if there is any demo version of the soft! Happy new year!
 
  01 January 2014
or model it properly and really take the time to learn the Hypernurbs object well. Deforming a sphere and then subdividing by 4 to make a strawberry seed is overkill.

You are creating an object that has to generate itself all the time (sphere) instead of polygons which are not regenerated. Then you deform it which requires calculating the changes to that sphere object that just generated. That takes calculationg to do.

Then you subdivide (4,4) Why 4 for the viewport? Unless you are landing on the strawberry like it was the moon, you won't going to need that kind of detail for a strawberry seed. One could try to justify it that high quality for the render although impo that is overkill too, but in the viewport, the reason you have two settings is to speed up it's performance.

Not only is it dense which means a lot of geo to handle bu the Hypernurbs needs to claculate the subdividing and generating of that object. Any tweak to the sphere, or deformer causes that hn to recalculate. Very innefficient.

Then you clone that object so you take a slow object and make a lot of them. The cloner doesn't just do that once and finish, it generates that geometry on the fly too so it is going to be slow. Just one seed is about 71 000 polygons, and they are generating which is slower than pure typically. 300 - 400 seeds is about 21 to 28 million polygons, and 20 GB of memory. I know that estimation because I have a 64 GB system and thats how much that type of geo is running here. so way beyond your memory

Turning on render instance takes that gown to 10 Mb. the difference is 24 vs 26 fps and thats on a 4GB 770 and the 64 GB of memory mentioned before. on an overclocked 4.4 ghz cpu. So a system can handle it, but something much beefier than what you have, and even then we are on the edge of realtime. the GPU memory and standard memory are the two real keys in terms of handling this amount of data. fast components alone won't do much if you can't handle the data and 21 GB of data on a 16 GB system means scratch disk which means slow.
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  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: or model it properly and really take the time to learn the Hypernurbs object well. Deforming a sphere and then subdividing by 4 to make a strawberry seed is overkill.

You are creating an object that has to generate itself all the time (sphere) instead of polygons which are not regenerated. Then you deform it which requires calculating the changes to that sphere object that just generated. That takes calculationg to do.

Then you subdivide (4,4) Why 4 for the viewport? Unless you are landing on the strawberry like it was the moon, you won't going to need that kind of detail for a strawberry seed. One could try to justify it that high quality for the render although impo that is overkill too, but in the viewport, the reason you have two settings is to speed up it's performance.

Not only is it dense which means a lot of geo to handle bu the Hypernurbs needs to claculate the subdividing and generating of that object. Any tweak to the sphere, or deformer causes that hn to recalculate. Very innefficient.

Then you clone that object so you take a slow object and make a lot of them. The cloner doesn't just do that once and finish, it generates that geometry on the fly too so it is going to be slow. Just one seed is about 71 000 polygons, and they are generating which is slower than pure typically. 300 - 400 seeds is about 21 to 28 million polygons, and 20 GB of memory. I know that estimation because I have a 64 GB system and thats how much that type of geo is running here. so way beyond your memory

Turning on render instance takes that gown to 10 Mb. the difference is 24 vs 26 fps and thats on a 4GB 770 and the 64 GB of memory mentioned before. on an overclocked 4.4 ghz cpu. So a system can handle it, but something much beefier than what you have, and even then we are on the edge of realtime. the GPU memory and standard memory are the two real keys in terms of handling this amount of data. fast components alone won't do much if you can't handle the data and 21 GB of data on a 16 GB system means scratch disk which means slow.


Thanks! Very technical reply! In my case the ram usage is a little smaller, about 4-5 gb per berry, so I thought my system could handle this.

I actually have a habit of monitoring the cpu and ram usage and it s sometimes surprisingly low. It can be sometime like 25%cpu and 40% ram when C4D is freezing itself. My feeling is there is something stopping C4D to utilize more CPU power and available Ram.

Is there a setting I can boost the performance?
 
  01 January 2014
You should really make a lowpoly model of the berry (no deformer). Than subdivide max two times and use this as a collission mesh. A seed should not have more than 20 polygons(unsubdivided). The berry surely can have 500 polys or less. There is a difference between detailed and highpoly. You can have a 10 million poly mesh with no detail at all.
If you still want to go the hardcore deformer/highpoly route i recomment to use r15 because many things work multi threaded and your scene can get much more responsive. Mograph has also been improved in performance under the hood.
Cheers holger
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  01 January 2014
Would you mind posting a mesh screen shot ?

Sometimes, copy pasting into a new file clears up strange behavior.
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iMac 3.06 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 16 GB / OS 10.9.5 / C4D StudioR12 / CS6

R.I.P. 11.02.11 ... my dear friend .
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by vid2k2: Would you mind posting a mesh screen shot ?

Sometimes, copy pasting into a new file clears up strange behavior.


Thanks!
First I have to say that with the collision deformer, I can't use render Instances option by default since it will render only 1 collision on the surface. Is there a way around? Second is I really am trying to draw a quite realistic strawberry. I am trying to model the dents just like a real strawberry, also the rotation, the size the number of seeds etc. One major problem is that I am cloning the seeds at the vertices of the sphere. So when it is being deformed by the bulge deformer, it compresses the polygons (I am using icosahedron here) so the vertices are more dense towards the tip which is not like a strawberry. I have to say I don't like it at all what I have got now since it neither cartoonish pretty nor realistic.

Btw, I didn't apply a subdivision surface to the seed, just bulged the sphere with 24 segments

here is the mesh
http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachm...id=174057&stc=1

or here:
http://s24.postimg.org/uovn7lcw3/berry_mesh.png
for a larger view

Thanks guys!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg berry mesh.jpg (89.7 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by saldtch : 01 January 2014 at 04:12 AM.
 
  01 January 2014
Originally Posted by HolgerBiebrach: You should really make a lowpoly model of the berry (no deformer). Than subdivide max two times and use this as a collission mesh. A seed should not have more than 20 polygons(unsubdivided). The berry surely can have 500 polys or less. There is a difference between detailed and highpoly. You can have a 10 million poly mesh with no detail at all.
If you still want to go the hardcore deformer/highpoly route i recomment to use r15 because many things work multi threaded and your scene can get much more responsive. Mograph has also been improved in performance under the hood.
Cheers holger


Thanks for the tip! I guess I need to rethink quite a bit how to do it properly!
 
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