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Old 08 August 2013   #31
Originally Posted by Srek: Thats is available as a preset node in Xpresso, it's not connected specifically to TP.



That's the issue with TP it does involve you going into Xpresso to get simple things working, in X-particles this functionailty is easy to access.

Its not a question of TP not being powerful, it is, there is just imho no easy way for the new artist to access it, especially in comparison to x-particles which works in a 'cinema' way. This is more a question of Maxon making the artist do legwork they shouldn't have to because modules are left drifting. Feature lists do not equate to efficient workflows!
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Old 08 August 2013   #32
Originally Posted by creativebloke: That's the issue with TP it does involve you going into Xpresso to get simple things working, in X-particles this functionailty is easy to access.

There are many prestes for TP included in the Content Browser that allow you to work with TP without having to touch a single node. These presets are all documented with examples. The HTML documentation is available from the Maxon website.
It's not realy any more difficutl than installing a new plugin.
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Old 08 August 2013   #33
Originally Posted by Srek: There are many prestes for TP included in the Content Browser that allow you to work with TP without having to touch a single node. These presets are all documented with examples. The HTML documentation is available from the Maxon website.
It's not realy any more difficutl than installing a new plugin.


Presets are presets, and 9 times out of 10 don't fit the bill. The beauty of x-particles or the new particle system in modo, is that they just work within the standard 'base' way of the application. TP doesn't.

Some of my work involves trying to see how a total newcomer would approach a 3D problem, and there is no way i would point them in the direction of TP, I would point them to X-particles or if money was another issue a different application.
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Old 08 August 2013   #34
sparks

If it is sparks then there is also..

http://nitro4d.com/blog/donationware/sparksfx/

By Nitro4d


I think XP though is great, flexible and fun to play with..

Lee
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Old 08 August 2013   #35
Originally Posted by creativebloke: Presets are presets, and 9 times out of 10 don't fit the bill.

Have you actually tried them?
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Old 08 August 2013   #36
I like TP!
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Old 08 August 2013   #37
I'm very deep into TP and i'm also just realising my first job with XParticles. Both systems are great and i don't think that it makes sense to bash around and tell people not to learn TP because it's so complicated. Just learn both and take the best of both worlds. While XParticles is extremly easy to set up and very fast at high particle counts because of it's modern architecture, TP is much more flexible and can create effects that XP simply can't. And i think i wrote this sentence 1000 times before: Complexe simulations are complicated. So there is no way to create a super easy to use particle system which is capable of creating super complexe simulations with custom effects that are not "preprogrammed" by someone else. Take a look at the amazing particle sims that come from Houdini or XSI artists. Is the workflow there super easy? No, it's not...because it's a complicated task. But if you have the tools, you can make it happen.

So my dream would be:
Develope XParticles further. It is already great and just so much fun to work with. It's stable fast and intuitive and i think it will be much better in the future. Maxon, create a new integrated, fully node-controlled, rule-based particle system with a deep integration in XPresso where i can access every tiny parameter of every single particle at any time and manipulate it. Actually like it is already, but of course multithreaded, faster, better caching options and updated nodes (turbulence, flocking etc).

As i said, best of both worlds.

BTW...if someone wants to dive into XPresso, maybe check out my tutorial at Digital Tutors. A second one about particle systems is already planned.


Cheers
Simon
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Old 08 August 2013   #38
this topic has been discussed 2 million times in this (and other) forum(s).
fact is: TP is old, yes. and it is extremely slow (due to its age), yes. and it is not multithreaded (due to its age), yes. and max particle count is by default set to 100.000, yes - which is somehow funny in 2013. short, it is very limited in many aspects.
BUT:
the following software-packages cant be compared, since they´re all very different and maybe stronger in many aspects, NEVERTHELESS basically and generally TP can be very powerful when one knows what he wants to do and how to achieve that.
and as always, this is the same with TP in Max, with POPs and VOPs in Houdini, with ICE in XSI or any other context in any other package.

kind regards,
Fuat
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Old 08 August 2013   #39
Originally Posted by Srek: Have you actually tried them?

yes

Originally Posted by teleliq: Just learn both and take the best of both worlds. While XParticles is extremly easy to set up and very fast at high particle counts because of it's modern architecture, TP is much more flexible and can create effects that XP simply can't.


I would agree that this is the ideal approach but the way you 'get' into TP in comparison with x-particles for the newb is again IMHO counter intuitive, but seeing the responses to this post it seems not everyone agrees but that's why we have opinions.
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Old 08 August 2013   #40
Originally Posted by teleliq: Complexe simulations are complicated. So there is no way to create a super easy to use particle system which is capable of creating super complexe simulations with custom effects that are not "preprogrammed" by someone else. Take a look at the amazing particle sims that come from Houdini or XSI artists. Is the workflow there super easy? No, it's not...because it's a complicated task. But if you have the tools, you can make it happen.


Agreed on this and everything else you said.
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Old 08 August 2013   #41
Originally Posted by chi: I would be interested in knowing if C4D users would be interested in paying an extra $1500 per license for a TP upgrade (No one ever looks at how much TP actually costs) in that case it might be worth Maxon's time


As powerful as Xparticles is I really don't see why Maxon would waste the time now. If anything it would make the most sense to buy and integrate Xparticles, if Mike and Steve were even interested in that.
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Old 08 August 2013   #42
Originally Posted by spedler: And creatively we aren't done with XP yet, not by a long way :-)

Steve


This pleases and excites me.
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Old 08 August 2013   #43
To get the most out of TP, you have to have a working knowledge of Xpresso. which is fine, and allows the artist/tech to create very complex and customized sims, but the learning curve to even begin wielding TP is that much more steep is all.

Other than tinkering with the included presets, TP is mostly aimed at advanced users.

XP is on it's way to make advanced particle systems accessible to any C4D user in almost any skill level.

It'd be nice to see Maxon choose to make TP more accessible to those not steeped in Xpresso, or have a more artist-friendly GUI, now that XP is quickly showing what some focused development along those lines can do. But, I like to see a third party have the freedom and community support to offer an affordable and robust modern solution to these more advanced areas of CG.
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Old 08 August 2013   #44
Originally Posted by cmyk: To get the most out of TP, you have to have a working knowledge of Xpresso. which is fine, and allows the artist/tech to create very complex and customized sims, but the learning curve to even begin wielding TP is that much more steep is all.

Other than tinkering with the included presets, TP is mostly aimed at advanced users.

XP is on it's way to make advanced particle systems accessible to any C4D user in almost any skill level.

It'd be nice to see Maxon choose to make TP more accessible to those not steeped in Xpresso, or have a more artist-friendly GUI, now that XP is quickly showing what some focused development along those lines can do. But, I like to see a third party have the freedom and community support to offer an affordable and robust modern solution to these more advanced areas of CG.


Let's not forget that you can't cache TP without a third party plugin or a weird workaround using Mograph cache.
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Old 08 August 2013   #45
Originally Posted by Troyan: Let's not forget that you can't cache TP without a third party plugin or a weird workaround using Mograph cache.


Yeh! What's up with that?

Every other simulated or dynamic aspect of C4D has some sort of caching option available. It's a critical, often necessary step, in ensuring the simulation can be locked down for rendering (with no unwanted surprises) or even passed on to other C4D tools/effects.
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Last edited by cmyk : 08 August 2013 at 07:50 PM.
 
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