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Old 08-02-2013, 08:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Navstar
At this point, C4D's TP is so long in the tooth (for whatever technical or financial reasons), I'd rather see it moved to legacy status and introduce a whole new next-gen particle system. Kinda like what Maya did with all the "nStuff".


Hi,

I absolutely agree. I wonder how Steve Pedler managed to offer his astonishing X-particles for such a ridiculously low price. Maybe Maxon should just buy X-particles together with the whole excellent development team. If they only were for sale ...

cheers

celke
 
Old 08-02-2013, 08:52 PM   #17
chi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celke
Hi,

I absolutely agree. I wonder how Steve Pedler managed to offer his astonishing X-particles for such a ridiculously low price. Maybe Maxon should just buy X-particles together with the whole excellent development team. If they only were for sale ...

cheers

celke


Agreed, I would only want to see this happen if it was a purchase of the dev team as well.
Otherwise we would just end up with another Thinking Particles situation.
This would certainly make me happy, but I also really enjoy the freedom that the XP guys have creatively ATM.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi
Agreed, I would only want to see this happen if it was a purchase of the dev team as well.
Otherwise we would just end up with another Thinking Particles situation.
This would certainly make me happy, but I also really enjoy the freedom that the XP guys have creatively ATM.


Yes, another TP-situation would not be helpful in the longterm. And another new particle-system from Maxon in 2 or 3 years wouldn't be helpful either. A particle-system is not like a beveling-tool. The investment in learning the system and setting up own sets is huge.
A little clarification from Maxon about its future plans would therefore be highly appreciated.

cheers

celke
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celke
And another new particle-system from Maxon in 2 or 3 years wouldn't be helpful either.
celke


Even an update to the current version of TP would probably end up as 1-2 years of dev time...and given that a new version is coming out soon, that puts you around 2-3 years away.

There has to be give somewhere.

As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

For the most part we can just be happy that there is a growing market for third party developers, even given the glut of piracy that exists within that market.

Sure NOT every user gets to play with the toys, but at least they exist for the people that need them, which is the most important part.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celke
Hi,

I absolutely agree. I wonder how Steve Pedler managed to offer his astonishing X-particles for such a ridiculously low price. Maybe Maxon should just buy X-particles together with the whole excellent development team. If they only were for sale ...

cheers

celke


Thank you very much for the compliment! I do need to point out though that there's three of us in the dev team, plus our beta testers (of whom Patrick is one) - we could simply not have produced XP without them.

Price is always difficult. We could have pitched it higher, but then we might have got fewer sales, and fewer users means more and more of a niche product. I think we got the balance right but Maxon would have to make a pretty serious offer to buy us out. Plus, we _do_ enjoy the creative freedom, some of which inevitably disappears when working in a corporate environment. And creatively we aren't done with XP yet, not by a long way :-)

Steve
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spedler
Thank you very much for the compliment! I do need to point out though that there's three of us in the dev team, plus our beta testers (of whom Patrick is one) - we could simply not have produced XP without them.

Price is always difficult. We could have pitched it higher, but then we might have got fewer sales, and fewer users means more and more of a niche product. I think we got the balance right but Maxon would have to make a pretty serious offer to buy us out. Plus, we _do_ enjoy the creative freedom, some of which inevitably disappears when working in a corporate environment. And creatively we aren't done with XP yet, not by a long way :-)

Steve


No, I have to thank you and your team. You're the light at the end of a very dark tunnel. I was foolishly hoping that R15 would bring some movement in this long neglected area from Maxons side. With the situation now clarified, we have to move forward. And your product is an excellent option. The price is also excellent for the customers, and I can't wait to see your future plans become reality.

Thank you, and your team, again

cheers

Carsten
 
Old 08-02-2013, 10:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi
Even an update to the current version of TP would probably end up as 1-2 years of dev time...and given that a new version is coming out soon, that puts you around 2-3 years away.

There has to be give somewhere.

As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

For the most part we can just be happy that there is a growing market for third party developers, even given the glut of piracy that exists within that market.

Sure NOT every user gets to play with the toys, but at least they exist for the people that need them, which is the most important part.


My recollection from the beginning of TP4D is that Maxon purchased the TP code outright, with no plans for an ongoing relationship with Cebas -- sort of how Maxon bought SLA from Bhodinut. Thus I would imagine that any further development of TP in Cinema will rely on Maxon's development team. I've got to believe that upgrades to TP are either being worked on or planned for development relatively soon.

Hopefully they learned from the SLA deal and made sure that Cebas' code was reasonably sorted so that they could step in and take over development without having to reinvent the wheel.
 
Old 08-02-2013, 10:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamT
Thus I would imagine that any further development of TP in Cinema will rely on Maxon's development team.
Hopefully they learned from the SLA deal and made sure that Cebas' code was reasonably sorted so that they could step in and take over development without having to reinvent the wheel.


In the imagination all statements are true.
The way I see it, people expect "TP4D" to be an exact parallel to Cebas TP.
If this was the case that means that MAXON would have to reverse engineer all of the work the team at Cebas has done over the past 8 years...heck, for all we know TP could have undergone a re-write at some point to enable better operation, if that is the case, then it would mean even more wasted time if maxon tried to build on the current TP foundations, as the current structure may not even be able to handle the newer Cebas TP features.

Like with Net, sometimes it's better to hack off a rotting limb.
It's going to hurt at first, but then things get better.

In the meantime, the folks at Insydium have my full support with the work they are doing.
If particles are crucial to what you do, then there is no better choice than x-particles.
And again, no matter what maxon tries to create, XP will have a significant head start. (I'm hoping market saturation )
If you only need particles sometimes, then use TP4D, and enjoy the fact that you still have access to an incredibly powerful particle system that comes included.

But I also wouldn't have an issue if maxon left particles to the 3rd party market altogether.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:46 PM   #24
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@ Spedler and Adam, adams solution is the same conclusion I came to, which is why I got annoyed,I thought; this cant be the intended way to do this, surely? and Spedler indicates there will be a proper way to do this soon.

In the meantime (while this thread was escalating quickly) I had another go at using x-particles without referring to tuts or the manual, ignoring the suggested system structure, and just using it like any other bit of c4d, in a 'suck it and see' mode... And that way, I got some good results + and a good user experience.

I still think the plugin UI is bloated atm and needs paring down, but it is certainly promising, so i feel in time this will be a good plugin,

PS I hate the question answer concept...

PPS subframe emission button doesnt seem to be working?

Last edited by cgireal : 08-03-2013 at 12:11 AM.
 
Old 08-03-2013, 02:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgireal
@ Spedler and Adam, adams solution is the same conclusion I came to, which is why I got annoyed,I thought; this cant be the intended way to do this, surely? and Spedler indicates there will be a proper way to do this soon.

In the meantime (while this thread was escalating quickly) I had another go at using x-particles without referring to tuts or the manual, ignoring the suggested system structure, and just using it like any other bit of c4d, in a 'suck it and see' mode... And that way, I got some good results + and a good user experience.

I still think the plugin UI is bloated atm and needs paring down, but it is certainly promising, so i feel in time this will be a good plugin,

PS I hate the question answer concept...

PPS subframe emission button doesnt seem to be working?


Yeah, I also had the idea that it could be streamlined by cutting out the answer objects. Let the questions address the modifiers directly and cut out the middle man. But the developers and some other users seem to feel pretty strongly that that's a bad idea.
 
Old 08-03-2013, 08:25 PM   #26
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BTW I thought it might be useful to mention that in order to get TFD and XP working at the same time I am using c4d r13.061, because 14 is crashing tfd in my experience.

And I have been registered on the Xparticles forum now....
 
Old 08-03-2013, 09:20 PM   #27
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Proly more useful to mention it on the XP support forum.
 
Old 08-04-2013, 12:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgireal
BTW I thought it might be useful to mention that in order to get TFD and XP working at the same time I am using c4d r13.061, because 14 is crashing tfd in my experience.

And I have been registered on the Xparticles forum now....


You should probably contact the developer of TFD then.
He would probably appreciate your crash logs, or steps to reproduce.
TFD has been pretty stable on my install of 14.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:13 PM   #29
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thx

Thanks for all the feedback. For someone who is considering switching, the fact that I already know TP is a bonus, plus I wouldn't have the additional expense of buying a plugin, although xparticles is minimal expense.

I've found TP to be pretty robust but there is critical functionality like finding nearest point on geometry and some other operators. I wouldn't demand everything TP5 has, but definitely needs some love to get it closer to what is expected in a particle system of 2013.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oatz
I've found TP to be pretty robust but there is critical functionality like finding nearest point on geometry ....

Thats is available as a preset node in Xpresso, it's not connected specifically to TP.
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