If I Don't Renew MSA?

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Old 08 August 2013   #61
Just to clarify a bit.
Maxon US is an own company, just like Maxon UK etc.
They offer CINEMA 4D as a product, but they have to buy the license from Maxon germany, where the product is beeing made. Additionaly to this each company can offer other products. Maxon US has created an own product, Cineversity, which they offer in a bundled deal if you get a MSA. Other Maxon offices and distributors offer other bundle deals, or extra services as part of the MSA. These are all variations that try to accomodate the local markets as good as possible.
If you like to see the offer you ge changed, talk to your local Maxon office / Distributor and ask them what they can offer.

Cheers
Björn
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Old 08 August 2013   #62
Originally Posted by Srek: Just to clarify a bit.
If you like to see the offer you ge changed, talk to your local Maxon office / Distributor and ask them what they can offer.

Cheers
Björn


Tried that last year and this - nothing on offer then, and nothing on offer now (UK).
 
Old 08 August 2013   #63
Originally Posted by Srek: Just to clarify a bit.
Maxon US is an own company, just like Maxon UK etc.
They offer CINEMA 4D as a product, but they have to buy the license from Maxon germany, where the product is beeing made. Additionaly to this each company can offer other products. Maxon US has created an own product, Cineversity, which they offer in a bundled deal if you get a MSA. Other Maxon offices and distributors offer other bundle deals, or extra services as part of the MSA. These are all variations that try to accomodate the local markets as good as possible.
If you like to see the offer you ge changed, talk to your local Maxon office / Distributor and ask them what they can offer.

Cheers
Björn


Thanks for clarifying that. But if that's the case, why can't UK buyers purchase from Maxon US? If they are independent companies, there should be competition between them. Then users around the world could shop for the best deal. As it is, we can't get Maxon UK to improve the deal because they have a monopoly.
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Old 08 August 2013   #64
Originally Posted by spedler: Thanks for clarifying that. But if that's the case, why can't UK buyers purchase from Maxon US?


It serves to protect the distributor in each region. Each regional distributor spends a significant amount of money and effort providing marketing and support in their region - trade shows, magazine ads, support representatives. It wouldn't be fair for MAXON US to do all of that for our market and have all our sales go to the UK. Similarly, it's important that UK users have a strong local distributor to provide local marketing and support. Sure there's overlap because we all speak English (some of us without quite as many u's), and because there's a global web. But local presence is still very important.

Even in a perfect world, it's impossible to maintain 100% price parity, since exchange rates fluctuate constantly. You'd never know what price to expect, because we'd all be shifting prices every minute based on the value of the Euro. Each MAXON distributor pays in Euros, so we take the currency risk on your behalf. You can always expect the same price for CINEMA 4D, even though our licensing fees to Germany fluctuate constantly.

As far as feature parity - again, each distributor tweaks the MSA based on the resources they have available and the demands of their market. We needed more to justify the MSA as an ongoing subscription, we weren't willing to change our support hours or policies, and we had Cineversity (and 1-on-1) there as a resource. It's what worked for our region, but every region is different.

For instance, we're having a very difficult time implementing Certified Training because it's structured for a region where you're never more than 4 hours away by car or train from the anywhere else - here in America the trains only carry cargo and a whole bunch of our region is much more than 4 hours away by airplane. As much as we've moved to a global economy, there's still very different cultures, pressures and opportunities. Local distribution gives MAXON the opportunity to respond to each uniquely.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #65
So the UK Office have no significant travel issues and (AFAIK) no on going special support for UK MSA holders - and we still get a worse deal?

Something really should be changed here.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #66
Originally Posted by deepshade: So the UK Office have no significant travel issues and (AFAIK) no on going special support for UK MSA holders - and we still get a worse deal?

Something really should be changed here.
Your Maxon office also has a significantly smaller userbase that the other Maxon Offices. I men you have 1/5 of the US population and Maxon US also covers Canada Mexico and all of South America. Smaller user base, means smaller amount of money and resources. The only other option would be not having a UK office but then you'd lose the localized support in your hours with your language and introduce all those travel complications.
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Old 08 August 2013   #67
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: Your Maxon office also has a significantly smaller userbase that the other Maxon Offices. I men you have 1/5 of the US population and Maxon US also covers Canada Mexico and all of South America. Smaller user base, means smaller amount of money and resources. The only other option would be not having a UK office but then you'd lose the localized support in your hours with your language and introduce all those travel complications.


Need to clarify this - but I don't think we actually get ongoing live support. Issues are reported to Germany. Last time I asked about something - (although a very friendly and very pleasant to deal with )no one had actually any expertise in the subject matter (new features).

And no one is going to close an office based on a few quid discount to users. UK aren't short of money or they wouldn't have offices in Pall Mall London?

Not even a discount for long term users - loyalty and repeat business should count for something?

Appreciate the feedback - but I'm still not convinced.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #68
Originally Posted by deepshade: Need to clarify this - but I don't think we actually get ongoing live support. Issues are reported to Germany. Last time I asked about something - (although a very friendly and very pleasant to deal with )no one had actually any expertise in the subject matter (new features).


That was my impression too when contacting support, that the questions pretty much get sent to Germany for response. The people at Maxon UK are very nice to deal with (I've met several of them personally and they are great people) but I got the impression they are generally more involved with the marketing side of things than the technical.

What would be cool with the MSA is if subscribers actually got some technical benefits, like say more frequent point updates. That way if you ran into a show-stopping bug in a version there's a good chance you might get an update that would fix it earlier than regular customers. As 'evil' as AD are, that's a nice benefit of their subscription system, the last couple of .5 releases of Maya in particular have had some very cool updates and fixes, 2014.5 is looking pretty exciting too as it will now include the Disney licensed xGen tech - http://area.autodesk.com/products/f...s/extensionmaya

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 08 August 2013 at 04:46 PM.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #69
Originally Posted by Horganovski: Well, in that case I might make the choice to walk down that road to get a better deal.. not really possible in this case though

Cheers,
Brian


Ok, then expand the markets.

Just because the Starbucks in Canada gives me a maple sugar cube, but their customers in the states don't get one, doesn't mean that American starbucks are screwing over their customers.

And in this case the American's can't just walk up the street, but they still aren't getting "screwed".

Or, just because McDonald's in Korea sells a Bi Bim Bap burger and the one in canada doesn't, doesn't mean I'm getting screwed.

Also, just to set this straight, getting screwed would mean that you are paying for CV AND NOT getting it.
ie. if the price of the MSA was raised to envelope the cost of CV.

This is in NO way the case.

And, finally, let's be honest, if you are complaining about now "having" to spend $295 on cineversity, and you have been on MSA previously, or have been a user for a few years, you were obviously never going to spend the money anyway.
So it's not like anyone has actually ripped or forced $295 out of your wallet.
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Old 08 August 2013   #70
Originally Posted by Horganovski: As 'evil' as AD are, that's a nice benefit of their subscription system, the last couple of .5 releases of Maya in particular have had some very cool updates and fixes, 2014.5 is looking pretty exciting too as it will now include the Disney licensed xGen tech - http://area.autodesk.com/products/f...s/extensionmaya

Cheers,
Brian


...this is all cool, just don't look at what they have been doing for subscribers to 3DS max advantage program.
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Old 08 August 2013   #71
Chi. I don't think you are getting the point. This has very little about Maxon up the road or the Maxon you are at.
The problem that I see and that has been mentioned already is customer perception and expectation. Also, consistency of offering under the Maxon banner.
If this was just a ' I want because I've not got' argument. We would not need Maxon (enter country of choice) to be giving anything away. We would just complain about not having anyway. I might try that at some point, might just work.
Maxon wherever, fly the Maxon flag. I may be wrong but they only sell Maxon stuff. There is obviously more to it than them only being resellers. Maxon US must have known this would piss people off. Maxon either need to put their name to something and stick to it or separate themselves from any ambiguity.
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Old 08 August 2013   #72
Originally Posted by deepshade: Not even a discount for long term users - loyalty and repeat business should count for something?


In the simplest way I can see it, from the standpoint of a company, if you stop upgrading, you are no longer a "customer." You helped the company recoup development costs, and of course there is some profit thrown in to help impress investors, but you are not expressing "loyalty"

In this case they are expressing "I needed that now, so I bought it"

The discount comes in the form of the MSA.

If you purchase MSA you are saying, "hey, I'm a loyal customer and I'll be here next year." and for that you get a discount on the price of upgrading when compared to all the people that said, "Hey, I'll give this a shot, but I'm not that into you".

Why should someone who skips out on an upgrade, and then jumps back into the software get the same deal as someone who stayed on MSA.

Like let's say both customers had purchased, 11, 11.5, 12, but then customer A) skips 13 while customer B) does not.

What you are saying is that customer A) should get treated the same as customer B)...so how does this make customer B) feel?
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Old 08 August 2013   #73
Originally Posted by jimzepellin: Chi. I don't think you are getting the point. This has very little about Maxon up the road or the Maxon you are at.
The problem that I see and that has been mentioned already is customer perception and expectation. Also, consistency of offering under the Maxon banner.
If this was just a ' I want because I've not got' argument. We would not need Maxon (enter country of choice) to be giving anything away. We would just complain about not having anyway. I might try that at some point, might just work.
Maxon wherever, fly the Maxon flag. I may be wrong but they only sell Maxon stuff. There is obviously more to it than them only being resellers. Maxon US must have known this would piss people off. Maxon either need to put their name to something and stick to it or separate themselves from any ambiguity.


This is very similar to the Starbucks you are at and the one up the road.
In both these cases each Starbucks is it's own shop part of a larger franchise, and although they both fly the Starbucks flag, each independent shop can run it's own promotions to stimulate business in that market.

Oh, I understand the "point" you guys try to make, and regardless of what customer perception and expectation is that is NOT the reality. Which is why we have tried to explain it. So that y'all be educated on the subject and so that your expectations can be properly set, because they not currently factoring in the reality of the situation.

Now, if users outside the US market want to get mad at MAXON US, for offering something to the market they deal with, then that is that users own strange sense of entitlement creeping in.
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Last edited by chi : 08 August 2013 at 06:21 PM.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #74
I really don't understand why MAXON US is the bad guy for structuring an MSA offerring that benefits our customers. In this case, yes, it's only our direct customers that benefit. But we just got finished streaming the entirety of Siggraph commercial free for everyone on C4DLive, and I'm right now in the process of editing those videos so everyone can continue learning from all the great presentations there. Those archives will be available free on Cineversity, as well as on Vimeo. There's a ton of totally free content on Cineversity - including my ArtSmart plugin. The reality is that a lot of the marketing and support efforts of the US office extend beyond our borders, even though MAXON US does not financially benefit from anything that happens on the other side of the world.

I'm sorry but I'm starting to take this a bit personal - so I guess it's a good time to reiterate that these are my personal views and not those of MAXON or any MAXON office.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #75
Rick. I don't think this is anything that Maxon US is doing wrong. Marketing is fine and good luck for the customers that can take advantage of the offer. I don't think anyone is saying that what you are doing is the problem.
I think this is a Maxon head quarters problem if for whatever reason customers perceived themselves as being ripped off rather than actually being ripped off. If all the Maxon offices, if they be that, are all flying under the Maxon banner. If Maxon US or any other around the world is touting them selves as Maxon then this leads to confusion. Either all the offices are MAxon or they are not. Can't have it both ways without confusion.
I'm sure you can appreciate that customer perception and expectations are very important to all companies and customers.
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