Binding Bones To Mesh Leads TO Crash

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Old 07 July 2013   #1
Binding Bones To Mesh Leads TO Crash

Hey guys so i have this fairly complex chest model of a robot that im trying to bind a set of bones too, now im doing this in segments as im new to bones and IK, so ive done the arms they are good to go the chest section seems to be giving me trouble. For testing purposes i set up a simple spline, 3 joints and have them working under an IK SPLINE with 3 controls for each joint

now this all works fine except for the bind part cinema seems to get to 80% (bar on the bottom right) and then freezes, and enters not responding, even as i type this ive left it be hoping by the time i get back from work it will be done and that its just calculating or something.

Any insight on this ? Or how i can work around this
can provide screenshots if needed or even a scene file

Thanks guys
-Sean
 
Old 07 July 2013   #2
Howdy,

Well, you really only need to bind (skin) a mesh to joints if that mesh needs to bend smoothly. If your character is a robot with rigid parts modeled separately, you could simply constrain those parts to their respective joints.

Skinning has to make a calculation for each vertex of the object while constraining only needs to calculate the axis of the object once, so constraining would even give you better viewport performance if the model has a large number of points.

Adios,
Cactus Dan
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Old 07 July 2013   #3
Try this!

Hi, Shawn, I rigged a skeleton last year. That I believe would be similar! I set up my axis ,with axis tool such as, head of femer where leg rotates, I set up where needed for biped autorig. After my axis all set up, I selected all pieces added character from menu, built biped rig, used adjust to set blue and red points at my bone axis where need, you should get a skin tag on all pieces, my skeleton has like a hundred. I believe each piece auto got 100% weight! C4d did 100% of the weighting and animated well! Hope this helps!
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Old 07 July 2013   #4
Howdy sir
I saw you replied I was like its cactus him self
Quite the honor, your plug ins are superb I have them on my
To buy list as soon as possible

Also back to my project now I have done exactly that for the
Arms and thighs but it's the main chest and hips that are tricky
Cuz it's meant to be rigid but also meant to bend a little and by
This I mean I'm trying to show the bot is has a muscle system which is shielded
By these white panels I'm going to link you to a picture below

Update: so cinema 4d was really working as catcusdan rightly said
But viewport functionality is near 0 it's super laggy now I'm thinking
If this is how it has to be what's the best way to creat a walk cycle
Also not so sure how ill he able to check for geometry errors during the walk cycle

I'm sure there is an easier way for this
Also thanks for the help

Originally Posted by Cactus Dan: Howdy,

Well, you really only need to bind (skin) a mesh to joints if that mesh needs to bend smoothly. If your character is a robot with rigid parts modeled separately, you could simply constrain those parts to their respective joints.

Skinning has to make a calculation for each vertex of the object while constraining only needs to calculate the axis of the object once, so constraining would even give you better viewport performance if the model has a large number of points.

Adios,
Cactus Dan
 
Old 07 July 2013   #5
Screenshot?

How many polys are in the chest object that's giving you problems? If it's very high poly you might want to build a low poly cage around it, rig the cage, and then bind it to the high poly object with the mesh deformer.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #6
Can you provide the scene file with the chest?
If your viewport is sluggish and Binding takes ages, then your mesh must have an insane amount of points.
Make sure the Autoweighting process is set to Distance mode (Visibility mode takes longer as it needs to send visibility rays for each joint of the rig) and joint count to 2 (so it has to calculate the weights of less joints for each point).

Weighting your rig to a low poly proxy could be a solution, as Adam suggested (although, I would want to enable the mesh deformer at render time only), or you could optimize your geometry to deal with less points overall.
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Old 07 July 2013   #7
Hello guys
thanks for the great feedback


so far here is the low down, the chest unit is working fine but as im new to this rigging aspect of cinema4d im still very rusty with all this, horrible viewport performance. Im going to look into using a frame to animate this guy instead. The animation is small too just a simple walk cycle nothing fancy a few head turns here and there. But i wasnt able to grasp how to setup a low poly version of this some more insight here would be great. I plan to begin animating this before this week ends, i have to show a finished walk cycle on Monday at university.

id love some insight or a pipeline / workflow for how to go about making a low poly cage and binding this to the existing model, i understand the concept of making a low poly cage and rigging that but then what ? how does all that translate to my model ?

Im currently uploading a scene file its uber large like 800MB so its going to take a while for now i have some screenies for you guys one showing the whole model and one showing just the chest im currently trying to get around how to rig. If this becomes to much work ill just not rig this and just have it be very stiff, though i would love my guys to be a little more fluid in their walk cycles.



 
Old 08 August 2013   #8
Howdy,

Well, if your file has that many points in the model (800mb), then I would definitely say don't skin the model to the joints. Constrain them instead, or parent them to their respective joints. You can always detach those polygons in the chest that need to bend, into a separate object and skin that.

Adios,
Cactus Dan
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Old 08 August 2013   #9
Originally Posted by Cactus Dan: Howdy,

Well, if your file has that many points in the model (800mb), then I would definitely say don't skin the model to the joints. Constrain them instead, or parent them to their respective joints. You can always detach those polygons in the chest that need to bend, into a separate object and skin that.

Adios,
Cactus Dan


Ok this is getting somewhere now, trying to find my way using constraints and parenting getting much better results to far very nervous on how to go about creating walk cycles im going to do this tutorial on digital tutors tomorrow, however with that most of thats for skinned and more organic creatures.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #10
Here's a very quick demonstration of how to set up a simple mesh deformer rig to control a high poly model: http://www.3danvil.com/tutorials/Si...rmer%20Rig.html
 
Old 08 August 2013   #11
Originally Posted by AdamT: Here's a very quick demonstration of how to set up a simple mesh deformer rig to control a high poly model: http://www.3danvil.com/tutorials/Si...rmer%20Rig.html



Thanks for that really really helpful, im going to use that technique on the other biped 'walker', totally new to all this but this is definitely an interesting way to go about this, thanks sir
 
Old 08 August 2013   #12
[UPDATE]

Right so first off thank all of you guys for your help, i managed to rig the model and get everything running, walk cycle ill work on later this week as i was uber nervous about getting my head around bones and IK etc. But so far its looking good and working as i want it to be.
I opted against skinning it in the end as the viewport was just to laggy and the bots dont warrant enough time as they wont be on screen for that long or be that close. So i have this inner muscle skin put on the back burner for now.

However ive run into another problem this time with the elbows, they seem to be bending in the wrong way

a little background on how i ran into this wall.
The elbows were working fine but when i put them under the shoulder joints they rotated around and everymove i made had the shoulders jumping around so i added a pole to stop this from happening it worked but it seems to have returned this error that now my elbow is bending in the wrong way. Any insight here ? I know its something to do with my poles i was even thinking of fixing this using constraints (this tag is really my new best friend).

Attached are some images.

Arm Control at PSR 0


Arm Control moved vertically up, used to bend properly before but its playing up now
 
Old 08 August 2013   #13
It's always best to have a slight bend in your chain before you create the IK as it gives the IK algorithm a hint as to which way the chain should bend. If it's dead straight, as here, the program just has to make a guess.

If you don't want to start over that way you can fix it like so:

* turn off the IK tag in the tag's Basic tab;
* turn off any constraint tags driven by the chain;
* drag the joints below the top joint out of the heirarchy;
* rotate the top joint 180 degrees on its Z axis;
* drag the other joints back under the top joint;
* select the top joint and run the Character>Commands>Align command;
* turn the IK and other tags back on.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #14
You can also just go to the IK tag and specify exactly which axis it should use for the Pole, ie +y,-y etc. The 'Auto' option (the default one) is a bit temperamental in my experience.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 08 August 2013   #15
Originally Posted by Horganovski: You can also just go to the IK tag and specify exactly which axis it should use for the Pole, ie +y,-y etc. The 'Auto' option (the default one) is a bit temperamental in my experience.

Cheers,
Brian


Or that.
 
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