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Old 07-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #16
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So Team Render only works over a local network? I wouldn't be able to render over the internet, for example over a VPN connection?
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:40 PM   #17
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If you use Bonjour you are limited to the local network. If you configure by hand you can go beyond. However, due to the possible amount of traffic TR is only recommended and specified for local use.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:06 PM   #18
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Thanks for clarifying, Srek.

So where does that leave the online renderfarms, and workflows (like mine) that render remotely?

Should I not upgrade if my workflow requires such functionality?
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srek
There is no specific server or control instance, however you can set up one machine to handle all renderings by simply saving projects to a network drive and using that machine to add and manage those projects from the Renderqueue.
Multiple users can use the same TR clients, the jobs will be queued locally on a first come first serve base.


but that machine running as just a render manager would need a full version of C4D right? (i.e. a separate serial number) and associated purchase price.

so which at what cost? and does Prime C4D running as render manager have a limit to 3 render clients?

or does a Prime C4D running as render manager in this way see the Studio Render clients and allow unlimited render nodes as Studio does? meaning you need to purchase a copy of C4D Studio to run a render only manager to allow unlimited render clients? (that is an expensive render manager in that case)

still trying to work out all the details in my head - and while yes many of us will have to "wait and see" as you say - that does not always mean by waiting it work as we need or hope by that time... which can leave users kinda scrambling in sept.

so i think joel is just trying to be prepared for that potential "what if" it doesn't work like he thinks and then is stuck and needs either a separate render manager from a 3rd party or how to break it to the boss that the NET Server we paid for a few years ago is now "poof" gone and we have to spend more money to replace it with something else.

i see exactly what joel is seeing and am thinking of the similar what are my options going to be in Sept

personally i think it would be cool if you could just do what you did with NET Server and essentially make a render manager only version of C4D (kinda like the new TR render client is) so that people can technically set up a standalone box to run the renders like we do now. that would essentially give a replacement to both NET Server and NET Client

i'm happy (quite surprised even) to see NET updated - but still kinda looking at it as - well we gained some but lost some in the upgrade.

thanks srek, nice job everyone at maxon

dann
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:20 PM   #20
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I asked this in the other thread but I think it got lost in all the other responses. Can the Team Render Clients be run as a service in Windows?

The Net Render clients could not, you'd actually have to log in to launch them.
 
Old 07-24-2013, 05:32 PM   #21
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-TR Clients don't run as a service. The same workarounds that work with Net should work with TR as well, but they are not officialy supported
-Renderfarms: I have no idea how the different providers do things. If they use 3rd party rendermanagers they can still do so with R15, nothing changed in that regard. If they used Net they can now use the Renderqueue
-Remote Rendering: A HTML web interface might not be available anymore, but there are many remote desktop solutions that allow control of a system from afar. We routinely used this during beta phase, if you don't try to do 3D work via remote CINEMA 4D is working fine via remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dann_stubbs
but that machine running as just a render manager would need a full version of C4D right? (i.e. a separate serial number) and associated purchase price.

You already have to purchase a Studio Version to get unlimited Net Render so nothing ha schanged here

Quote:
Originally Posted by dann_stubbs
so which at what cost? and does Prime C4D running as render manager have a limit to 3 render clients?

Prime does not include TR. Viz and Broadcast support up to three clients, Studio unlimited.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srek
You already have to purchase a Studio Version to get unlimited Net Render so nothing ha schanged here


With NET, users are simply running the supplied NET render app on a separate dedicated machine (thats how I work at least).

With Team Render you suggest that the "Team Render Manager" ie the box running TR can be accessed via a remote desktop app. But what machine would that be on? I wouldnt want that running on someones workstation--who would? We would ideally have it running on a dedicated machine that PC and MAc users alike could access. But unlike NET, it sounds like a full working version of C4D would need to be running on that machine, hence the need to purchase an extra license just for that.

So with this new system, rather than introducing new functionality to a solution that worked, you are removing that solution, replacing it with a new solution that helps freelancers and small boutiques who may not normally rely on a render farm at all. Then you are putting bigger studios who do rely on a render farm on a daily basis in a situation where they may need to re think their setup completely as well as possibly needing to spend more money beyond what they've already paid for with their MSA. So now we may be needing to look at paying for the command line version or buying an extra version of c4d.

Distributed rendering looks great. Innovation, efficiency and speedups are always great. I just wonder if the team putting this together was thinking about studios when they developed this. Maybe it was to push more people towards the command line/3rd party route. Maybe it was just an oversight.

if I am wrong then great.

Please dont take this as a bitch session--seeing those kind of beta-centric comments flying around elsewhere. We are customers trying to get our jobs done. I am just trying to work out how we will need to proceed come September. Thanks

Last edited by JoelDubin : 07-25-2013 at 01:03 AM.
 
Old 07-24-2013, 06:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srek
You already have to purchase a Studio Version to get unlimited Net Render so nothing ha schanged here


it does if you have to purchase another copy of Studio to set up a stand alone render manager box that supports unlimited clients.

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Old 07-24-2013, 06:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelOtron
With NET, users are simply running the supplied NET render app on a separate dedicated machine (thats how I work at least).

I don't see the problem. In your case you can simply eliminate the dedicated machine and anyone can set up a net render from their individual workstation. In Dann's case, if he's using a dedicated machine to manage his farm, he could instead run a remote app on that machine, connected to the machine on his farm that's running the Studio version, and set up renders via the render que. Or in the alternative, have the studio version installed on the control machine and have all the nodes set up as clients.
 
Old 07-24-2013, 06:28 PM   #25
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I don't see the problem.


No disrespect Adam, but that seems to be the overarching problem.

In a production environment there are work flows in place for a reason. Im not going to explain them all, but Im sure Im not the only one who will be concerned with this new approach to render farm management once others find out about it.

Last edited by JoelDubin : 07-24-2013 at 06:50 PM.
 
Old 07-24-2013, 06:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srek
If you use Bonjour you are limited to the local network. If you configure by hand you can go beyond. However, due to the possible amount of traffic TR is only recommended and specified for local use.



does TR dynamically compress data when transferring? or is it native uncompressed data being sent back and forth?

(i see what i think is an encrypt checkbox in the TR video which is cool)

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Old 07-24-2013, 06:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamT
I don't see the problem. In your case you can simply eliminate the dedicated machine and anyone can set up a net render from their individual workstation. In Dann's case, if he's using a dedicated machine to manage his farm, he could instead run a remote app on that machine, connected to the machine on his farm that's running the Studio version, and set up renders via the render que. Or in the alternative, have the studio version installed on the control machine and have all the nodes set up as clients.



you apparently have not seen the CPU monitor of a NET Server machine and lots of render clients getting 32 bit EXIF 4k or larger renders pounding it.

some of us need a dedicated machine, individual users i suppose may not.

i'm just trying to think out the coming changes... but it's the same reason many pro users do not run a NET Server concurrently on their workstation - so team viewer is cool for tests yeah for sure being able to one click and DR to all those boxes will be awesome... but to then queue up some massive renders while needing to keep working... eh.. not so much.

and what happens with C4D crashes? do the Team Viewer clients keep rendering and then reconnect and send in their data like it does under NET Server?

what happens when NET Clients crash? do they go offline but stay connected in TR? so what is the procedure to get them back online? restart the TR client and it comes back online where it was? or do you have to manually go back and add the remote client again?

dann
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:02 PM   #28
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We're repeat clients of RenderKing and love how it works. This is a brief workflow description:

(1) Setup project and Save with Assets;
(2) Upload to RK via FTP;
(3) Unzip uploaded file and drag to root client FTP directory;
(4) Net Render will automatically identify and and queue the project;
(5) Manage personal queue via Net Render web interface. (Each account can only see their render queue, not the queue for each subscribed user.);
(6) Zip complete renders;
(7) Download;
(8) Delete completed projects from FTP server.

This workflow is simple to learn and use. And it means Dann doesn't have to give various users remote access to his Net Render server.

While it seems that Team Render is great for in-house farms and networked workstations, it doesn't seem to provide the same functionality needed for remote, subscription based Render Farms.

Also, I tend to work on a laptop which goes home with me each night. Even when I just render locally, it's nice to have a small machine (Mac Mini) run Net Render server so I can disconnect my personal machine from the network and return the next morning to completed render jobs. This functionality is also missing from Team Render.

I think R15 looks like a fantastic upgrade. And I think TR is great for many uses in-house. But the loss true Net Render is going to take some workflow adjustments.

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Old 07-24-2013, 07:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
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We're repeat clients of RenderKing and love how it works. This is a brief workflow description:

This workflow is simple to learn and use. And it means Dann doesn't have to give various users remote access to his Net Render server.

While it seems that Team Render is great for in-house farms and networked workstations, it doesn't seem to provide the same functionality needed for remote, subscription based Render Farms.

Also, I tend to work on a laptop which goes home with me each night. Even when I just render locally, it's nice to have a small machine (Mac Mini) run Net Render server so I can disconnect my personal machine from the network and return the next morning to completed render jobs. This functionality is also missing from Team Render.

I think R15 looks like a fantastic upgrade. And I think TR is great for many uses in-house. But the loss true Net Render is going to take some workflow adjustments.

Terry


while i know maxon has no personal interest in RK and it's needs which is fine - but it is not just RK, but this is exactly how most users with NET Server work right now - that is why i set up RK this way, because i wanted users to work they way they were already familiar and not have to learn a new interface or way to get things done.

the point you make about laptops is a good one - so a user who works off a laptop and takes it home now can't do any renders or leave any renders running without leaving their C4D machine at the office... very valid point i think. (but again maybe maxon is not too concerned about this scenario either)

overall it will change the workflow for any users that use NET Server as it is now - it seems maxon developed this new team viewer with the eye solely on the guy who sits alone and works on C4D and borrows some friends computers when he needs to get a render done ; )

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Old 07-24-2013, 07:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelOtron
So with this new system, rather than introducing new functionality to a solution that worked, you are removing that solution, replacing it with a new solution that helps freelancers and small boutiques who may not normally rely on a render farm at all. Then you are putting bigger studios who do rely on a render farm on a daily basis in a situation where they may need to re think their setup completely as well as possibly needing to spend more money beyond what they've already paid for with their MSA. So now we may be needing to look at paying for the command line version or buying an extra version of c4d.


+1

It does feel like we're paying for a downgrade, or to put it more kindly a sidegrade. With R15 the majority of my team can no longer launch renders that use the whole farm and everyone can launch renders with no regard for priority.
Team Render sounds great for small teams for whom Net Render was too involved, but for larger teams it just doesn't do the job. I think the assumption is that larger teams will be using something like Deadline but is suspect that many of us are somewhere in the middle.

What would really help with part of the problem would be to allow Broadcast to use more than three machines as long as there is a Studio license on the network.

Do you have to pay for the command line version of C4D?
 
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