MAXON Announces CINEMA 4D R15

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  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by Nanome: Great new features as usual.

But to me it's a huge disappointment not reading about the fixing of the slower Viewport on the market. I'm sorry to say this because I love C4D but it's the truth and you guys know it.

Not having any feedback from the interface when moving objects in scenes with large amount of clones and regular objects is a game stopper for me. I'm not even asking for real time playback, I just want to grab things and move them without everything disappearing from the Viewport. This happens even with the latest 12-core Mac and Quadro FX cards and I'm not animating millions of trees in a forest here, just regular motion graphics stuff.


What is your viewport redraw limit? Have you changed it from the default whoch is waaaaay too low imo.
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  07 July 2013
Looks like a very nice release. Congratulations to the Maxon team.
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by Nanome: I'm not even asking for real time playback, I just want to grab things and move them without everything disappearing from the Viewport.


Edit > Prefs > View > Redraw Limit

Set it to around 3000
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  07 July 2013
I really don't know why people always repeat that the C4D viewport ist slow. It's not. It's in fact the fastest viewport on the market.

I tested Max2013, Maya2013 Standard and Viewport 2.0 and XSI2013 against R14 with some heavy CAD Data with user normals.

Cinema had by far the fastest performance. Maya Viewport 2.0 comes close but crashes most of the time.

Same with many objects. It's always challanging to traverse a huge DAG, but C4D ist very fast here compared to the Autodesk phalanx. Maybe fabric is faster, but that's it.

So please. Do some tests yourself. Speedups are always welcome, but the C4D viewport IS fast!

If you want to know how a sloooooooow vieport and DAG traversal feels, try XSI
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  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by ThirdEye: Some interior renders i did, all with QMC/IC + Light Mapping. First one is a famous premade scene, the others are by me.


What were the render times and system/network specs like for these renders if you have that info available?

Originally Posted by mnu: If you want to know how a sloooooooow vieport and DAG traversal feels, try XSI


Absolute fact right there to the point of tears.
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by Continuumx: Thanks ThirdEye - this is very helpful - one more dig down - Is this what you did for the window portals?

R14 Help -
These objects (also called "Polygon Lights") contain a material with an active Luminance channel and with the GI Area Light option enabled

Thank you,


he is refering to "GI Portals" and not "GI Area Lights"

create a material, turn all channels off apart from luminance. then go to the illumination tab. notice that the "GI Portal" button is inactive.... well activate the transparency channel and go back to the illumination channel and you will notive that the "GI Portal button now can be used. check it on, throw it on a polygon set in the window and bingo... light portal.
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by mnu: I really don't know why people always repeat that the C4D viewport ist slow. It's not. It's in fact the fastest viewport on the market.

I tested Max2013, Maya2013 Standard and Viewport 2.0 and XSI2013 against R14 with some heavy CAD Data with user normals.

Cinema had by far the fastest performance. Maya Viewport 2.0 comes close but crashes most of the time.


That's just in one situation, try loading several character rigs into a scene, or some reasonably heavy mocap data and Cinema is several times slower than Maya. I have a lot of real world experience with this as I've worked on similar character animation projects in both packages. Maybe it's not strictly 'viewport' performance that's the issue, rather object handling with lots of objects (as you typically have with character rigs), and possibly part of the bottleneck is slow Xpresso calculations compared to direct node connections in Maya, but either way in my experience Cinema will bog down a lot sooner than Maya with general animation tasks. Hopefully though the new multi-threaded deformers will go some way to improving that for character rigs.

As for Maya VP2.0 crashing, sounds like a driver conflict, I use it here all the time and never get crashes with it.

Back to R15, looks nice, but disappointed (not surprised though) to see no mention of Timeline improvements, or some updates to the script manager, maybe R16 hopefully.

Cheers,
Brian
 
  07 July 2013
Hi Brian,

you're absolutely right. But what you mention is not viewport performance but character rig performance. There's a lot of room for improvements. But it's really something different. ICE in XSI is by far faster than TP in C4D for example but this has nothing to do with viewport speed.

Best Manuel
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  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by mnu:
Cinema had by far the fastest performance. Maya Viewport 2.0 comes close but crashes most of the time.


Hi Manu, Yes I can confirm that. Most People have the Impression that the Cinema 4D viewport is so slow because many dont realize that Mograph and other Generators are the Cause of the slow performance. For Pure Polygon display Cinema Rocks all others.

Have you also compared high Object-counts with LW/c4d/Maya? I am curious how c4d really compares there?
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  07 July 2013
Hi Manuel, yes, I guess the term 'viewport performance' is used very broadly, and often incorrectly. When it takes several seconds for a scene to update when the time is scrubbed one can tend to say 'the viewport is slow', since that's generally what the end user is actually interacting with, but I guess it's more correct to say the object manager or other elements are the slow part.

Regards,
Brian
 
  07 July 2013
So Bodypaint and other once good features/parts of C4D have been left to die? UV tools have seen no update either? Users go nuts over bevel tool and kerning? People really need to wake up to reality and see what the competition offers.
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by theglenster:


modeled with the new modeling tools and rendered with all our new GI and AO stuff


Very nice. Love it!
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by mnu: I really don't know why people always repeat that the C4D viewport ist slow. It's not. It's in fact the fastest viewport on the market.

I tested Max2013, Maya2013 Standard and Viewport 2.0 and XSI2013 against R14 with some heavy CAD Data with user normals.

Cinema had by far the fastest performance. Maya Viewport 2.0 comes close but crashes most of the time.

Same with many objects. It's always challanging to traverse a huge DAG, but C4D ist very fast here compared to the Autodesk phalanx. Maybe fabric is faster, but that's it.

So please. Do some tests yourself. Speedups are always welcome, but the C4D viewport IS fast!

If you want to know how a sloooooooow vieport and DAG traversal feels, try XSI



Everything is said and i could confirm that ! Try XSI... and youŽll see and feel what is slow!
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by Firebeard: So Bodypaint and other once good features/parts of C4D have been left to die? UV tools have seen no update either? Users go nuts over bevel tool and kerning? People really need to wake up to reality and see what the competition offers.


Inevitably.

Inevitably any given release will disappoint some and make others happy because all facets of the program can't be addressed at once. To me the changes are quite welcome. BP update would be nice, but to me ... it's not that big a deal. To others, like you, it's a very big deal.... It's been a long time since it received significant attention, but it will come around. Until today many would have said that NET had been left for dead. Now it's been completely rewritten, and much for the better by all appearances.
 
  07 July 2013
Ah, ok. that's where the confusion comes from. C4D has to evaluate all live objects like generators, rigs, expressions, deformers etc. This is currently single threaded and not very fast. Just looking at a Mograph Cloner makes me got to sleep, granted. But viewport performance starts after all of this and is very fast. Hence the name :-)
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