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Old 07-13-2013, 02:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dann_stubbs
i always suggest a book or class on photography lighting and using bounce cards and similar lighting
dann


Um, what is a bounce card? Is that like a white polygon to create diffuse lighting?
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillRyan
- Camera movement was a combo of hand-animated, Camera Morph, and Motion Camera. Most of my shots were done with Camera Morph - which was probably the most fun of the entire project.


Thanks Will. I meant to say Camera Morph instead of Motion Camera. I mislabel those a lot.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelOtron
Thanks Patrick. To be honest I havent touched the morph cam. I'll give it a look.


It's very slick in how it works but only useful if you have a camera motion with 1 stop. Editing important aspects along the shot are done simply by repositioning the still cameras. Makes a nice fluid movement. I just wish you could have multiple stops.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyan
It's very slick in how it works but only useful if you have a camera motion with 1 stop. Editing important aspects along the shot are done simply by repositioning the still cameras. Makes a nice fluid movement. I just wish you could have multiple stops.

Yeah...this was one of the things that gave me a nerd stiffy when CS demoed his (almost vaporware now) motion camera (years ago).
camera Morph and motion camera tags are great, but that thing was like a sick blend between the 2 with a dash of radioactive spider...i totally tried to pilfer it off the demo station...but he was on to my schemes...plus CS is the bomb.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:19 AM   #20
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And, to the OP and crew. Great work, thanks for making C4D look good
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:27 AM   #21
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- Scott, the ILM models weren't ridiculously high poly, they worked fairly fluidly in the viewport with 1-2 of them in the scene. I think a ton of the beauty comes from all the texture map work they do. They're absolute geniuses when it comes to that.

- Priest, it was a little more than 2 weeks, but it was only 2 people plus an intern full-time on the gig. I agree we could have pushed the shaders a lot harder, but the choice to go simple and clean was also part of the direction from the director. If I remember correctly, we did initially use some subtle noise n the Jaeger's shader, but GDT wanted the mecha to be as "sexy" as possible to contrast the craggy surface of the Kaiju. That translated into making them as slick as possible. We knew it would speed us up and it made the director happy. We weren't going to argue that one

- Chi, thanks for the heads up on the priorities! Right after I typed out our process in my last response I started testing out other ways to achieve Motion Cameras tied to a Morph Camera. I knew there had to be a better way than with a Tracer.

My solution before reading yours was to put the Morph Camera in the Motion Camera's Base Link field, but this is even more slick. You know what I really need to do? Watch your Cineversity series on the Motion Camera

- Dann, thanks for the kind words! We feel the same way, and we're all trying to learn more about cinematography and real world camera techniques here at IF. This gig was the first time I actually used flags in CG to control the appearance of reflections on certain surfaces. I know it's frowned on by some people, but on the few shots that I was using omni lights I also was using negative lights to suck out illumination in certain areas.

Thanks again for the comments, and especially the criticisms Priest! It's the only way we can get better. Believe me, the saying that you never are finished, you only run out of time is never lost on us.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:33 AM   #22
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@Troy/chi I've used the morph camera features in Lennarts steady cam (or was it steady glide). I always ran into issues when I needed to ease in, pause and move on to the next camera position--so stopped using that feature. Used to use Chris Smiths rigs a lot too, For whatever reason I never tried the c4d morph cam.I just wish there was more shake/noise features in the c4d rigs.

Anyway--love threads like these---always interesting to learn about what happens behind the scenes on these types of projects. I got to see 2 guys from I.F.NY speak a few years ago at AENY...one on the Terminator Salvation HUD work done in C4D and the other guy broke down the God of War title sequence. Both presentations blew me away.
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:13 AM   #23
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Nice job!

The movie sucks, though! Terrible acting and, well, to each his/her own....
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:02 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillRyan
My solution before reading yours was to put the Morph Camera in the Motion Camera's Base Link field, but this is even more slick. You know what I really need to do? Watch your Cineversity series on the Motion Camera


I'll save you the time.
Here is the short form.
set shot 1
add camera
set shot 2
add camera
set shot 3
add camera

select the 3 cameras (order in morph list will be the same as the order in OM hierarchy (if you want shot 1 to be the first camera you absolutely must reverse the sequence in the OM))
add morph camera via camera palette

select morph camera
add motion camera via morph palette

Set priority on motion camera tag to 120

fiddle like you have never fiddled before.

really though, it would be pretty sweet to see a hybrid of these 2 tags...as it is still a pretty lengthy workflow...when really I should just have all the secondary motion options + a multi-camera morph list without needing 2 tags.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:23 AM   #25
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Thanks for the breakdown - just ran through it at the office and it works like a charm. Still fiddling with the dampening and inertia settings for Foot, Head, and Hand to get my particular formula down, but it's pretty damn sweet to start off with if you're slogging through previs.

Do you ever get the feeling that most of the C4D community doesn't realize how many tools are really sitting there to be played with? Between the camera tools and the character rigging stuff, I think a lot of these tools are under the radar.

Thanks again for the tips - they're going right into production!
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillRyan
Thanks for the breakdown - just ran through it at the office and it works like a charm. Still fiddling with the dampening and inertia settings for Foot, Head, and Hand to get my particular formula down, but it's pretty damn sweet to start off with if you're slogging through previs.


when using a source camera, you can really just get away with the foot dynamics.
The other 2 will only come into play if you are using the head rotation controls / the arm offsets.

damping reduces the effect of motion, while interia adds weight.
For fast vibration use low dampening and low inertia.
For heavy swinging motions you would set high values for both...as the movement should be like moving a heavy weight through a thick substance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillRyan
Do you ever get the feeling that most of the C4D community doesn't realize how many tools are really sitting there to be played with? Between the camera tools and the character rigging stuff, I think a lot of these tools are under the radar.

Thanks again for the tips - they're going right into production!


I get that feeling everyday

The other thing to watch for is baking these cameras.
I don't know if you guys ran into that one.
But C4D can NOT create tracks for attributes driven by expressions (so like if you have the morph tag morphing between 2 different FOV)
So in order to bake those you first need to manually add the FoV track to the camera you want to bake (No keys...but the track needs to be there.)
Then you can bake the FoV change too.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi

The other thing to watch for is baking these cameras.
I don't know if you guys ran into that one.
But C4D can NOT create tracks for attributes driven by expressions (so like if you have the morph tag morphing between 2 different FOV)
So in order to bake those you first need to manually add the FoV track to the camera you want to bake (No keys...but the track needs to be there.)
Then you can bake the FoV change too.


keyMATE via my sign sort that.
Just deactivate/delete the morphtag on the result.

Cheers
Lennart
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:39 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcastudios
keyMATE via my sign sort that.
Just deactivate/delete the morphtag on the result.

Cheers
Lennart


Lol. Perfect. Your scripts and plugins are always a huge helper on any project!
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest
Odd to think that with such a big production, you'd be forced into a position to do this in 2 weeks with 5 minute per frame renders. It shows in the end titles too, though the intro is flawless.


Having done a few of these myself, I can say that they are almost always considered add-ons by the director and studio and the last thing ever thought about when making the film. Starting title production with only a few weeks until picture lock is par for the course :(

Ryan, your team did a great job, especially when I read about the time and resources you had. Congrats!
 
Old 07-14-2013, 07:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi
Yeah...this was one of the things that gave me a nerd stiffy when CS demoed his (almost vaporware now) motion camera (years ago).
camera Morph and motion camera tags are great, but that thing was like a sick blend between the 2 with a dash of radioactive spider...i totally tried to pilfer it off the demo station...but he was on to my schemes...plus CS is the bomb.


Ouch, Patrick I was waiting for the first use of 'vaporware' If it makes you feel better, I started back on it today after months off for my new baby and work. Sigh, someday...

OP: Great work.
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