Reverse Zoom

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  07 July 2013
Reverse Zoom

Is there something (in the means of scripting or anything) to reverse alt-rightclick zoom. The way C4D navigates by default is when we hold down Alt + right click and drag downwards the mouse, it zooms out; and upwards, it zooms in.
I've been a Maya user for so many years, and I use other 3d packages that have totally different controls,
The problem is mainly because everything else (in navigating) in C4D is exactly the same as maya, but this zooming method is the exact opposite, my brain keeps thinking to navigate like maya, I'm finding it really hard to navigate fast and effectively in C4D because of this.

Or is this just not possible?

Cheers,
Dominic
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by DominicE: The way C4D navigates by default is when we hold down Alt + right click and drag downwards the mouse, it zooms out; and upwards, it zooms in.
It's actually drag Left or Drag Right. If you change your diagonal bottom-left to top-richt into bottom-right to top-left what you want will happen ...feels clumsy though. As far as I know the drag direction is hard coded and can't be changed.
 
  07 July 2013
I'll add that left and right are identical in C4D and maya, it's only the up and down, which I'd argue is a terrible way to navigate. Way more work than left and right. Unless your actually using your shoulder for the movement that's going to be far more damaging long term. I'd opt for left right or scroll wheel both as better solutions for your arm and both being consistent in maya and C4D.

Funny how scroll down is zoom out but mouse down is zoom in in maya.
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Kai Pedersen
 
  07 July 2013
LucentDreams, I beg to differ. I don't move my shoulder or even wrist, to travel up and down the screen. My hand is planted in one spot, and I retract the mouse back n forth outwards n inwards towards my palm with my thumb, ring finger, and pinky. Single drag goes all the way across the screen. It's the quickest, most effective with minimal strain imho, And since I use my wrist left and right already to revolve around objects and pan the view, this method actually relieves wrist strain by 30% at least.

Well, some other 3D packages, for example, ZBrush also navigates this way, so Maya is not so much alone

Sad to hear that it's hard coded..
 
  07 July 2013
I mean, in terms of mouse down to zoom in, it feels just like swimming, you pedal your arms to the back to move forward kinda thing. I'm sure if I'm a C4D 'native', I'll be on your side of the fence.

Some flexibility to change drag direction in the future will be great ( I can imagine it will fit just nice below 'reverse orbit' , 'reverse zoom (drag)' ) although perhaps very unlikely

Thanks guys anyways for your infos and tips. Appreciate your replies!

Cheers!
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by DominicE: LucentDreams, I beg to differ. I don't move my shoulder or even wrist, to travel up and down the screen. My hand is planted in one spot, and I retract the mouse back n forth outwards n inwards towards my palm with my thumb, ring finger, and pinky. Single drag goes all the way across the screen. It's the quickest, most effective with minimal strain imho, And since I use my wrist left and right already to revolve around objects and pan the view, this method actually relieves wrist strain by 30% at least.


Ack that's terrible, finger clawing is still a horrible thing for your wrist along with your entire forearm. Yes wrist movement is bad, but all the fine motor muscles under such repeated stress are going to suffer. You want to use the gross motor muscles in your forearm and shoulder these are designed for these types of repetitive tasks. Try and flex those fingers to move the mouse up and down and tell me you don't see all those same tendons in the wrist flexing along with some new ones.
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Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
  07 July 2013
I appreciate where you're coming from and your methods. I still have to respectfully disagree. I need to bring this up to bring my point, musician for 20 years, i have been doing finger 'flexing', of different sorts, economy picking, fingerpicking etc, whether you can call the muscular movement fingerclawing or any different names. I use the same finger muscles in mouse movements in a fraction of the stress compared with when I'm playing music.

"You want to use the gross motor muscles in your forearm and shoulder these are designed for these types of repetitive tasks."
I'm pretty sure millions of musicians playing different instruments with heavy repetitive tasks on the fingers, are gonna disagree with you with this kind of statement.
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by DominicE: I appreciate where you're coming from and your methods. I still have to respectfully disagree. I need to bring this up to bring my point, musician for 20 years, i have been doing finger 'flexing', of different sorts, economy picking, fingerpicking etc, whether you can call the muscular movement fingerclawing or any different names. I use the same finger muscles in mouse movements in a fraction of the stress compared with when I'm playing music.

"You want to use the gross motor muscles in your forearm and shoulder these are designed for these types of repetitive tasks."
I'm pretty sure millions of musicians playing different instruments with heavy repetitive tasks on the fingers, are gonna disagree with you with this kind of statement.


A piano guitar or brass finger placement are all unlike a mouse. Your thinking it is simply about the fingers itself, but the point is your using the finger to move the device without moving your arm at all, totally unlike a guitar or piano. If your playing the piano your not resting your arm on a surface. your moving your shoulder and elbow constantly. You are using a dramatic amount of fine motor movement just as with clicking a mouse button or keyboard, that's perfectly normal and fine. It's how we are designed to work to distribute tasks between the two systems. If you rested your palms or wrists on the edge of the piano and didn't move your arms but simply pressed the keys with hands placed, you'd first of all not be able to play a lot because of limited movement, but you'd also struggle to press the keys because it's not a natural angle.

I'm not basing this on personal opinion though but on common knowledge workplace ergonomics, as well as as lot of trying on work place ergonomics.
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Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
  07 July 2013
I assume you don't play any musical instruments much, and based everything you said on your observations? Just one example when a guitar player does right hand palm muting with economy/ hybrid picking, the right hand is planted on a spot against bunch of strings and the strain on the picking fingers aka the fine motor muscles is extreme especially during very fast lines, this can go for extended period of time during a solo or even the whole tune. I'm not going to bore you any further with more examples and jargons, but I can't explain one otherwise

Bottom line is this, on both fine and gross motor muscles movement, mouse usage strain on any level is just a cockroach compared to the strain needed to perform different techniques on a musical instrument.

Thanks but you don't have to worry that I will injure myself on a mouse
It's simply irrelevant for me and not even close...
 
  07 July 2013
In support of good mousing, I swear by these and have them at every computer:

Fellowes mouse pad with wrist support

I'm using a wired Mighty Mouse (on my third or fourth - gag) and I only need to move my mouse using a claw method and hardly have to move the mouse at all to navigate my scenes.

I play guitar and piano and click my mice more in one day than I care to even think about and I have zero wrist issues. (knock on wood)

I also use the gel wrist pad for the keyboard, too. Helps me greatly!

Ryan
 
  07 July 2013
It's funny, I hop back and forth between Maya and C4D a lot and I never noticed this, I guess because I use Alt+RightClick and dragging left/right to zoom which works the same in both.

Regarding general RSI stuff, I've played guitar for over 20 years and I've always found my left hand suffers a lot more than my right with any repetitive use issues. Part of that might be that I'm more of a legato player than a really fast picker and I guess part might be that I like to play some pieces (Paganini and Vivaldi in particular) that have pretty big left hand stretches.

One thing I swear by though - mice are evil! I use a Wacom tablet for 100% of my 3d use and it's made a big difference to how much comfort I have when animating all day every day. Took about a week to get used to it but there's no way I'd go back to a mouse, they feel really slow and clumsy to me now.

Cheers,
Brian
 
  07 July 2013
I have friends who use clawing method and they have no wrist issues and some other use more wrist movements with no issues as well. Now having said that, I'm sure mice can be evil and RSI shouldn't be taken lightly. But I argue that there's not only 1 single correct way to do it, as there are few alternatives.
I can say this as well, that my left hand n fingers suffered quite a bit last time when I arranged my hotkeys in a way that I need to twist my hand way to press some key combinations, I tend to use hotkeys a lot and a prolonged use of those key combinations hurt my hand. afterwards I remap my keys in a more comfortable way, and all is well. I have had no other issues other than that.

Ryan, I'll definitely check out the fellowes pad and other gel pads as a precaution and well, more comfort is always good.
Brian, I use wacom a lot for zbrush and photoshop and that's it. I've tried wacom in other 3d softwares with no luck just yet. I rarely animate at all, and 95% of the time I model. Do you think it usually is more for animators? Have you come across anyone who likes to 'move vertices' using wacom, I'm curious to hear that.

Dominic
 
  07 July 2013
I don't know about others as I work remotely, but I use my Wacom for everything in C4D/Maya/Zbrush etc, from modeling to UV mapping, rigging, animating etc. I initially just used it for things like ZBrush/Flipbook for the pressure sensitivity but got so used to it I switched entirely and pretty much ditched my mouse. I only use a mouse now on my older computer that I use for the web sometimes as it has some weird issue where the right-click on the pen stops working (I guess some OS/Driver conflict as it's physically the same tablet connected to both machines via a USB switcher and it works fine on my 'work' machine).

Cheers,
Brian
 
  07 July 2013
I do mostly modeling and have no issues with mouse strain (knock on wood). For me the key is to have good elbow support (arm chair) for the mouse hand. The other thing is that I use a Nostromo speedpad for hotkeys and shortcuts which allows a relaxed sitting position. No need to be hunched over a keyboard.
 
  07 July 2013
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