Hierarchy display in Timeline begone..

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07 July 2013   #1
Hierarchy display in Timeline begone..

Ok, this is one that's driven me nuts for a while and I'm back animating in Cinema again after a break and had forgotten how much I dislike it. I'm curious does anyone else want this to work differently or are people just used to it because C4D has always worked like this?

In a nutshell - I don't want to see hierarchies in the Timeline.

If I select say the Body controller of a rig (and there are several child controls of that, say the spine and head controls) Cinema will always show me the entire hierarchy. Why? I just want to see the object (and it's keys) that I've selected, not the entire hierarchy. I know we can 'fold all' to neaten things a little, but it's still a mess IMO as we have all those branches to deal with too.

I even spent some time searching for an option to switch this off but I'm pretty sure it's not available. It gets extra annoying in the key editor when you try to offset keys as each controller takes the 'child keys' with it when you offset unless you select the tracks specifically..grrr... this is a crappy workflow IMO.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm curious do any of the other people doing character animation not find this as annoying as I do?

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 07 July 2013   #2
Hmmm when I select an animated object with children- I use the "Show tracks" or "Show Fcurves" command and the child objects don't show up- I'm on R11.5 though and I have automatic mode turned off.

I also use the "hide unselected" command on a hotkey to solo an axis.
__________________
-
M dot Strange
Independent CG Filmmaker & Game Developer
M dot Strange dot CoM
 
Old 07 July 2013   #3
Hey thanks, that's slow but at least it works. What I want I guess is it to work the same way when in automatic mode, ie I select an object, it gets loaded in the timeline automatically but doesn't show any child tracks (whisper - like Maya). I wish there was a simple option for this as pretty much all character rigs have some controls in a hierarchy so it's not exactly an isolated case.
I know there's a 'Hide Unselected' option in the Timeline but that's not great either IMO as they you can't even see the name of the object you have selected and you have to do it for each object in turn.

I wish sometimes the guys at Maxon would do a 'Blender' and develop a short film using the program. I'm pretty sure if they had a team of animators spending 8 to 10 hours a day animating in Cinema a lot of the bad workflow stuff would be fixed pretty quickly. Animation is nothing if not a repetitive task, and all these extra clicks, selections and scrolling through lists really add up over a days work.

Full disclosure - I had 3 crashes yesterday while doing really simple stuff and lost work each time, no warning, no error, C4D just closed, gone. So yes, I'm feeling extra grumpy towards it right now

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 07 July 2013 at 05:25 PM.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #4
I've requested this feature for years, so it's in the system at least.
Hopefully one day they'll get around to implementing it.
__________________
One on one Online Instructor for Cinema4D | Visit www.Fluffy4D.com for more info.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #5
Thanks, good to know at least they are aware of it then. As I'm always saying, we have so many advanced tools for character work in C4D but the fundamentals have never really been solidified IMO and the basic workflow is lacking in many areas. Yesterday I would have killed for a darn Euler Filter command too on one of the shots I was working on LOL. I've requested that myself many times.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 07 July 2013   #6
Originally Posted by Horganovski: I know there's a 'Hide Unselected' option in the Timeline but that's not great either IMO as they you can't even see the name of the object you have selected and you have to do it for each object in turn.


I've never animated in any other program so I guess I don't know how efficient things can be- btw thats a great idea about a short film- I think that is a real issue as there are tools that are ok for dabbling in character animation or animating a few shots- but when you're animating hundreds or thousands of shots with character animation you demand much more from the tools.

Also the speed of the tools and the controller selection workflow is a big deal- they may perform will with one or two characters in a scene- but what about when you have 5-6 characters interacting?
__________________
-
M dot Strange
Independent CG Filmmaker & Game Developer
M dot Strange dot CoM
 
Old 07 July 2013   #7
It might not be as simple as in Maya where you turn to automatic mode …but it's pretty simple as well.
A 2 step solution.

-Drag all objects involved in the Timeline.
-Enable 'Link View to Object Manager'.

So if you send a request to Maxon make sure you don't request for the option 'not to see hierarchies in the Timeline' since that option is there since v10 at least, but request for the one button solution Maya offers.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #8
Ah, Ok. So if I drag each object in turn into the timeline first (with Link View to OM active) then it works as I'd like as long as I leave Automatic mode off. A little more setup initially but it works much better for me than what I was using (both Auto+LV2OM enabled).
Thanks.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 07 July 2013   #9
You're not alone. It's stupid that if I have link view to Object Manager on, and I select an elbow, I see the Shoulder.

It also occupies an unnecessary amount of space for the hierarchy. It should just all be flat imo.
__________________
www.bretbays.com
"We do not - not wag our genitals at one another to make a point!"
 
Old 07 July 2013   #10
I would also like to get rid of the folders. I don't want a position folder and then x,y,z inside of that i just want position x, y and z lines. In Key mode it's just an extra line in the way and when you have an object with lost of custom user data it just makes the list that much longer for no reason.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #11
Quote: I would also like to get rid of the folders.


There is a option to turn that off in the preferences: Timeline - Object area - show vector track
 
Old 07 July 2013   #12
Martijn already tackled the 'folder' issue.
Quote: and when you have an object with lost of custom user data it just makes the list that much longer for no reason.
If you work like me and drag only the stuff you will actually work on in the timeline first, you can create hierarchies, to organize the way you want to work …and change them at any time …the power is there you only need to start using it.

Add your User data to a null and collapse it …or add the user data to a Layer and disable hierarchy of the Layer …or add it as a child of another object so you will always see it if that object is selected …or drag it to the bottom of the hierarchy where it isn't in the way. The possibilities are endless ...and together with the 'Link options' you get a very powerful timeline.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #13
Howdy,
Originally Posted by Horganovski: ...In a nutshell - I don't want to see hierarchies in the Timeline...

...do any of the other people doing character animation not find this as annoying as I do?...

Yep, I have to agree that I find it a bit annoying, too. I would prefer to only see the object I've selected in the view port.

Something else that annoys me as well is, that Timeline settings are saved with the file so when I receive a file from someone else, I have to figure out what settings they've set so I can see what I need to see in the Timeline. It's usually a case where they've turned off Auto Mode, but since I rarely turn that off in my own work, if the time between receiving someone else's file is long, I forget about that option.

Adios,
Cactus Dan
__________________
It doesn't matter what people say about you, just as long as they're talking about you.

cactus3d.com, cactus3d-Plugins, CD Character Plugins forum
 
Old 07 July 2013   #14
Originally Posted by bunk: Martijn already tackled the 'folder' issue.
If you work like me and drag only the stuff you will actually work on in the timeline first, you can create hierarchies, to organize the way you want to work …and change them at any time …the power is there you only need to start using it.

Add your User data to a null and collapse it …or add the user data to a Layer and disable hierarchy of the Layer …or add it as a child of another object so you will always see it if that object is selected …or drag it to the bottom of the hierarchy where it isn't in the way. The possibilities are endless ...and together with the 'Link options' you get a very powerful timeline.

I'm with bunk on this. To me you've developed a single way of working from maya and simply don't want to learn or expand your functionality. Having animated in both I'd take C4D's timeline over maya's Certain features like Euler filter as mentioned sure I'd love to have built in, but I can streamline and organize far more with C4D.

This does affect Dan's issue though, Preferences are always a hard one in terms of whether they are stored with the project or the user. In this case it sadly has to be with the project as each timeline can be so heavily organized on a project basis.


Quote: Animation is nothing if not a repetitive task, and all these extra clicks, selections and scrolling through lists really add up over a days work.

The day that you can modify tangents without selecting the key first in Maya, come talk to me about which one requires more clicks.
__________________
Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 07 July 2013   #15
I usually right click on the animated object and say "Show tracks" or "Show fcurves" and the timeline only puts in the that particular object. I can select everything in the OM and say "Show tracks" and the same thing happens, just animated objects, no children. I guess I'm used to working that way so I don't have the same frustration.
__________________
2014 Reel
Company website
Behance Portfolio
HyperactiveVR
I reject your reality and substitute my own
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.