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Old 06-07-2013, 11:15 AM   #1
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RSMB + C4d

I've always used Reelsmart Motion Blur on C4d rendered layers comped into backgrounds in AE, and precomposing the motion vector pass with alpha trick works really well.

Now I've been trying to apply RSMB to an entire rendered frame from C4d (i.e.: no layers) and I'm rendering out the motion vector pass from C4d with anti-aliasing off. But the result in AE with RSMB Pro Vectors is a harsh line where geometry overlaps. Is this normal or a limitation? I can't render out in layers for this projects as its very complicated with shattering glass and reflections/refractions interacting with a sprite mapped onto a plane. So I was hoping to render out full frames of RGBA and Motion Vector to keep it simple, but it doesn't seem to be working.

Any ideas anyone?

Edit: I hope not to settle for the standard RSMB without the motion vectors, because the result is rather swirly (due to all the shattering glass), and funky at the edges of the frame.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:26 PM   #2
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Have you tried adding just the slightest amount of blur to your motion vectors? It's definitely not a "pro fix", and has only worked for me in a few situations, but it might be worth a try.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 03:32 PM   #3
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you may have to split it into layers in post using a depth pass as an alpha. Sadly AE doesn't have a better vector motionblur system that I know of, but realsmart is showing its age in its limitations.

That said overlaps will always be the leading factor for artifacts
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #4
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The bigger problem you're going to have here is that the vector pass doesn't see through transparency. I think you'll either have to render with moblur or put up with some swirling.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 04:45 PM   #5
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Thanks a lot guys for the help!

@Luke: I did try to blur the vector pass, but that created some strange smearing at the edges. In the end I bit the bullet and split it up into layers and re-rendered the whole thing with vector passes for each layer and did it the way I'm used to. Quite a pain with all those compositing and visibility tags.

@Kai: I never thought of splitting it up that way. I actually thought of using object buffers as alpha. What's the benefit of using a depth pass as alpha? I read somewhere that AE CS6 will have native moblur.

@Adam: you're spot on about the transparency and vector pass. In the end I settled for more accurate blurring over the transparency. The swirling was just to 'Van Gogh' for me!

Anyway, I'm off to sleep now. Catch up on this tomorrow. Thanks again!
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:29 AM   #6
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object buffers will usually work too. (unpremultiply them though) Main thing with a depth map is that one image can create a lot of mattes but clamping black and white points, It's less setup in C4d and less disk space but it is more work in AE. Neither is wrong, and honestly you can even use them together. like say you have particles. The object buffer will still only matte out all particles from the rest of the scene, but you can't blur the closer particles separate form the further ones.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:30 AM   #7
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Also, if you have the Physical Render Engine, it sounds like a scene that would've benefited from true MB rendering.

Despite the somewhat longer render times, and how wonderful RSMB can be, there's really no trade off for the real thing when you really need it. And all the time spent trying to get a good result with a post MB plugin (and umpteen passes/comp tags), may have justified using Phys renderer anyhow.

But it's hardly ever an easy and clear-cut call.

Ignore this, of course, if you still only have AR.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:26 AM   #8
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I agree that Physical Render looks much better and is a more straightforward workflow. In fact my earlier tests were using physical render. The problem is the shot also required a rack focus, and with a fickle client, anything but post blurs would have required total a re-render everytime client changed their minds about timing.

I'm seeing this trend amongst clients that they no longer know how to make decisions from playblasts/draft renders, and always need to see something close to final before they can decide and sign off. This alone really makes me long for renderers like Octane to be fully integrated into C4d.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:29 PM   #9
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Yep. I am too. It seems to become problematic for clients not familiar with the workflow or technologies.

Not that it's their job to do so, either. Lately I've been making as much of an effort possible to state from the beginning that understanding the scope of the job and what that final look will be is crucial to the production at all angles, mine and theirs. For one, it determines what I can or cannot deliver, as all art directed decisions would have to be agreed upon before start of work, and if it changes during the course of production, any deadlines, schedules or costs would have to be adjusted for on their end.

Storyboarding and conceptualizing art direction are unfortunately not seen as a major, crucial step in the production process they should be, anymore -- or at least seems to be a dwindling notion. I get aesthetic changes down the line, and it happens, etc. but for the most part, it used to be that the preproduction was where you cemented in the "look". Everything else was mainly, "what's the best/easiest way to execute this shot." *sigh*

Still, it's always a fickle bitch. I completely understand your frustration.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #10
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Over here, not only does art direction change, concept changes too.

That's what happened on this job. We had a product crashing though glass that had me doing dynamic sims, until it suddenly changes to 'the glass spontaneously shatters on its own'. Not to mention several redo's of materials/textures due to 'miscommunications'.

Takes a lot of the fun out of what we do.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #11
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I feel your pain!

And yes, it does. There's certain clients I'm almost tempted to never work with again, simply because, despite the hellfire and brimstone of previous productions, due to such client-end changes in scope and direction, they still want to proceed in the same fashion.

And besides the lost sleep, I lose my shirt and sanity in the process too.

Must keep swimming! Must keep swimming!
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #12
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It doesn't get any better the bigger you get. This would be one of the bigger factors as to what led to R&H's bankruptcy.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:12 AM   #13
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That's sad though. While advertising clients might be excused for not understanding the CG process, there's absolutely no reason for Hollywood filmmakers not to.

I believe this is affecting all artists. It's just exploitation/abuse, plain and simple. Especially like when CMYK says, it happens over and over with some clients. And in the current economic climate, it's harder for us to say no.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:43 AM   #14
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Good to know I'm not the only one dealing with this sort of thing. It's a very unwieldy situation to handle when jobs balloon out of control like that, and diplomacy only seems to go so far sometimes; but as mustardseed says, hard to say "no" in such a dire economic season. And it is mostly the advertising peeps.

On the other side, I get spoiled when I'm working with folks that do understand what a lot of it takes, and get that a workflow is crucial to lay down before production, ask the right sort of questions concerning changes or scope, etc. The interaction become grease on rails, even if the production is tight and hairy. Luckily, I'm working with such guys now!
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:55 AM   #15
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It used to be that such knowledge/understanding was a requirement to work in this industry. It's so different these days.

When you hook up with a good client who understands the value, never let go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyk
On the other side, I get spoiled when I'm working with folks that do understand what a lot of it takes, and get that a workflow is crucial to lay down before production, ask the right sort of questions concerning changes or scope, etc.
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