Depth Pass anti-aliased?

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Old 06 June 2013   #16
Originally Posted by AdamT: 1) I've done it both ways (separate pass and EXR). I can't figure out how to get a layered EXR straight out of render settings, but I've been able to get one by rendering and then saving out of the Picture Viewer;

2) Camera space;

3) I used EXtractoR with the layered EXR, but if you render a separate pass you can use that directly. With EXtractoR you have to select "Y-depth" for each channel, precompose the result, and then use the precomp as your depth layer in Lenscare.


1) Doesn't ticking on the "Multi Layer File" under Multi pass work?

3) What do you mean by "Separate pass"? I though Ppass info could only be saved in EXR? What else can it be?

So you're saying you have to use EXtractoR and the green Y-depth to get a blue z depth from the pre comp? 1) the hell kind of crazy crap is that? 2) how did you figure that out?
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Old 06 June 2013   #17
Originally Posted by Troyan: 1) Doesn't ticking on the "Multi Layer File" under Multi pass work?

3) What do you mean by "Separate pass"? I though Ppass info could only be saved in EXR? What else can it be?

So you're saying you have to use EXtractoR and the green Y-depth to get a blue z depth from the pre comp? 1) the hell kind of crazy crap is that? 2) how did you figure that out?



I believe you always needed extractor for exrs in AE (at least we always have used it)
 
Old 06 June 2013   #18
Originally Posted by Troyan: Trying to work out a solution to this exact problem. I have an animation with a bunch of gears that without blur some gear rotation synchs with the frame rate causing them to look stationary or running backwards. Need DOF to help focus on gear sets during fly-by. Not looking forward to this if I have to render DOF and Blur in Cinema. Which 2 plugins are you talking about exactly?


If you had to render one of them in C4D, I'd suggest baking the DOF if only because it's a closer emulation to the real life film process in a camera - light first goes through the lens to be focussed before it hits the sensor/film, where the motion blur is created.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #19
Originally Posted by LukeLetellier: If you had to render one of them in C4D, I'd suggest baking the DOF if only because it's a closer emulation to the real life film process in a camera - light first goes through the lens to be focussed before it hits the sensor/film, where the motion blur is created.


Yeah, but the only post option I'm aware of for MB is ReelSmart which 90% of the time is awesome, but 10% of the time calculates some bizarre results. Is there anything new for MB that I'm not aware of?
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Old 06 June 2013   #20
Originally Posted by JoelOtron: I believe you always needed extractor for exrs in AE (at least we always have used it)


I know but he's saying he's using it to get green depth to then get blue depth in pre comp for Lenscare. Bizarre.
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Old 06 June 2013   #21
Originally Posted by Troyan: 1) Doesn't ticking on the "Multi Layer File" under Multi pass work?

3) What do you mean by "Separate pass"? I though Ppass info could only be saved in EXR? What else can it be?

So you're saying you have to use EXtractoR and the green Y-depth to get a blue z depth from the pre comp? 1) the hell kind of crazy crap is that? 2) how did you figure that out?


No, position pass can be a separate pass like any other. If you use a separate pass then you use the blue channel. If you go the EXR route then the result will be grayscale so you just use Lenscare's default setting (not blue channel).
 
Old 06 June 2013   #22
Originally Posted by JoelOtron: I already said that you can turn off AA in blur i.e.


Have you tried doing rack focus in Zblur? (either rendered in camera or in post using lens care)

I've never gotten a sharp focal point when I use the front and back blur simultaneously (via the Focus position slider under Depth adjustment.)

To be honest--this may work now that zblur has the option to utilize the cameras depth settings. The c4d camera does produce good front and rear depth maps. USing the focus position slider in zblur doesn't in my experience.


Rack focus lens care 1

Zblur Lenscare rack focus 2

Both old but done using depth map from Zblur and Lenscare moving the focus point. Not saying you're wrong but I'm not sure of the issue you're describing?
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Old 06 June 2013   #23
Originally Posted by AdamT: 1) 3) I used EXtractoR with the layered EXR, but if you render a separate pass you can use that directly. With EXtractoR you have to select "Y-depth" for each channel, precompose the result, and then use the precomp as your depth layer in Lenscare.


This worked. I still don't understand why you have to pull the Y data then pre comp to make the z data. Crazy but it worked.
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Old 06 June 2013   #24
Originally Posted by Troyan: This worked. I still don't understand why you have to pull the Y data then pre comp to make the z data. Crazy but it worked.


Yeah, sorry -- I don't understand it that well so it's hard for me to articulate it. I did a short demonstration that will hopefully explain it better here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g54ZCgO5aI

I figured out the problem I was having rendering straight to multi-layer; I had enabled AE export which causes the multi-layer option to be unselectable.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #25
Originally Posted by AdamT: Yeah, sorry -- I don't understand it that well so it's hard for me to articulate it. I did a short demonstration that will hopefully explain it better here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g54ZCgO5aI

I figured out the problem I was having rendering straight to multi-layer; I had enabled AE export which causes the multi-layer option to be unselectable.


So it just worked for me without having to set channels to Y before precomping. Going to make a quick vid myself. Mostly for me because I'll forget all of this 2 days from now, including RPF. I'll post shortly.
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Old 06 June 2013   #26
As a note, you can use the Process tab in the Extractor Plugin to get a more contrasted map so you don't have to crank up the values in Lenscare. You can also use it to clip areas that don't matter for DOF.

I'd never heard of this before you guys started playing around so thanks for the info, it's a really nice solution, so much depth info to play with... I often create 2 depth passes, one for use as fog and one to feed Lenscare, I wonder if I can get away with no aliasing on the one for the fog pass. Will have to test some more

cheers
brasc

edit: just realised I can just use the normal depth pass for the fog pass, even better!
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Old 06 June 2013   #27
Originally Posted by brasco: As a note, you can use the Process tab in the Extractor Plugin to get a more contrasted map so you don't have to crank up the values in Lenscare. You can also use it to clip areas that don't matter for DOF.

I'd never heard of this before you guys started playing around so thanks for the info, it's a really nice solution, so much depth info to play with... I often create 2 depth passes, one for use as fog and one to feed Lenscare, I wonder if I can get away with no aliasing on the one for the fog pass. Will have to test some more

cheers
brasc

edit: just realised I can just use the normal depth pass for the fog pass, even better!


Good point on the process settings.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #28
Originally Posted by Troyan: Which 2 plugins are you talking about exactly?


Adam Swaabs http://adamswaab.wordpress.com/ and the other unfortunately was take tool which Franz no longer offers, not sure how I missed that one.
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Old 06 June 2013   #29
Originally Posted by Troyan: Rack focus lens care 1

Zblur Lenscare rack focus 2

Both old but done using depth map from Zblur and Lenscare moving the focus point. Not saying you're wrong but I'm not sure of the issue you're describing?



Thanks Troyan

If you set up your camera (or your zblur settings) so your focal distance is far from the camera, then you can get a nice depth map with a gradual gradient spanning the scene. From this you can do some nice things in post as you demonstrate. Perhaps this is the best way to approach dof in cinema as it offers the most flexibility. I think this is also what we have been talking about when discussing the z-depth pass in some other threads here: a nice long gradation throughout the scene for the most flexibility in post.

My issue comes when trying to focus on an object in the middle ground. So objects close to, and far from the camera are blurred out while the middle ground objects are in sharp focus.

I have had difficulty getting this to work using the focus position sliderl in Zblur (See attached), in cases where I wanted to control my focus in-camera and not in post...or at least control the focus in-camera to generate a depth map that already has the correct "rack focus" effect built into the depth map. And then use that in post.
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Last edited by JoelDubin : 06 June 2013 at 02:38 PM.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #30
Originally Posted by JoelOtron: Thanks Troyan

If you set up your camera (or your zblur settings) so your focal distance is far from the camera, then you can get a nice depth map with a gradual gradient spanning the scene. From this you can do some nice things in post as you demonstrate. Perhaps this is the best way to approach dof in cinema as it offers the most flexibility. I think this is also what we have been talking about when discussing the z-depth pass in some other threads here: a nice long gradation throughout the scene for the most flexibility in post.

My issue comes when trying to focus on an object in the middle ground. So objects close to, and far from the camera are blurred out while the middle ground objects are in sharp focus.

I have had difficulty getting this to work using the focus position sliderl in Zblur (See attached), in cases where I wanted to control my focus in-camera and not in post...or at least control the focus in-camera to generate a depth map that already has the correct "rack focus" effect built into the depth map. And then use that in post.


This raises an interesting question. Or a couple, actually.

First, when using the z-depth info Cinema in OpenEXR or RPF, how is transparency that's less than 100% handled? As you can see in that simple cell test, one of the cells that moves behind another semi-transparent cell is not blurred at all, then is heavily blurred as it comes out from behind. One problem with making a map from Zblur2.

Second, in the case of position pass or z-depth data, why doesn't that just generate a z gradient? Why are there objects at all in the depth maps? If all we're controlling is where the focus point is from the camera and how far from that point forward and back from the focus point things get blurred, why is it necessary to include objects? Shouldn't z-depth data just be plotted points in 3D space? Am I only making sense to me?
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