Hypernurbs not quite CC SubD?

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Old 05 May 2013   #1
Hypernurbs not quite CC SubD?

Hi guiz.

I am in the process of getting my head around modeling in C4D ( you may of noticed my other thread ) but there is one thing that is bothering me so - hypernurbs.

I have brought in models that I modeled in Silo and dropped them in hypernurbs, but the models seem to have lost its energy so to speak. The details seem blended out and compared to how they where in the Silo view port.

I have messed around with lighting to try to mimic Silo's default lightening but the models still seem to be smoothed out.

Any suggestions? I was thinking that it may be hypernurbs is different to catmul subd's.

G
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Old 05 May 2013   #2
Hard to say without seeing a comparison, but Cinema uses the Catmull-Clark algorithm.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #3
Geometry-wise they are the same.

things to try:
- create a custom light setup that matches Silo's
- increase the default focal length of Cinema's editor camera, it's a bit too wide-angle for character modeling
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Old 05 May 2013   #4
Possibly edge/point weighting?

Select points or edges, hold down the fullstop key and drag in the left and right in the viewport.
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Old 05 May 2013   #5
Like they said, could be anything, starting with the phong tag. I always set my phong angle to 22 by default. Reflections along edges are handled much more correctly as well as more realistic smoothing in most cases.
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Old 05 May 2013   #6
My first question would be why you assume Cinema's is wrong and silo's is right?

Fact is though both probably are Catmull Clark, most apps use catmull clark... sort of. If they all truly did the implementation of catmull clark than open subdiv wouldn't exist. The fact is the Pixar ran into problems with Maya's implementation didn't math their implementation didn't match houdini's didn't match modo's. Areas such as optimizations, handling of ngons, UV's holes, and weighting all are vastly different from app to app despite all being based on the same papers. You wanna get picky the subdivision in the Hypernurbs doesn't match the subdivision of the sub polygon displacement in cinema, in fact they are vastly different, a point I brought up many times in beta and eventually gave up on. SPD uses the older linear subdivision system that existed in the like R7 days.

What can you do about it, nothing, petition your software companies to adopt open subdiv, thats about it.
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Old 05 May 2013   #7
cause he sticks to whatever he liked more,
which is in this case the result of the silo viewport

still interesting to find out what makes the difference.
but without any screenshot it s making no sense to talk about it.

cheers
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Old 05 May 2013   #8
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: My first question would be why you assume Cinema's is wrong and silo's is right?

Fact is though both probably are Catmull Clark, most apps use catmull clark... sort of. If they all truly did the implementation of catmull clark than open subdiv wouldn't exist. The fact is the Pixar ran into problems with Maya's implementation didn't math their implementation didn't match houdini's didn't match modo's. Areas such as optimizations, handling of ngons, UV's holes, and weighting all are vastly different from app to app despite all being based on the same papers. You wanna get picky the subdivision in the Hypernurbs doesn't match the subdivision of the sub polygon displacement in cinema, in fact they are vastly different, a point I brought up many times in beta and eventually gave up on. SPD uses the older linear subdivision system that existed in the like R7 days.

What can you do about it, nothing, petition your software companies to adopt open subdiv, thats about it.


I don't think I did say one was right and one was wrong. If it came out that way, than I'll correct it here. The model I made in Silo is a sinewy gollum-like character that is quite heavy in details regarding protruding bones, sinew, ligaments etc. The look of the model is correct *to me* in Silo - it is the way I painstakingly made it. I am now looking to finally ( after 3 years off and on ) rig it and also tweak it in C4D.

Also, thank you for that understanding of subD's. Very insightful and interesting.

I remember in Zbrush many moons ago a feature that 'amplified' details. I may of misunderstood it but I always had the impression it could exaggerate details. This function is kind of what I need.
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Old 05 May 2013   #9
Originally Posted by grrinc: I don't think I did say one was right and one was wrong. If it came out that way, than I'll correct it here. The model I made in Silo is a sinewy gollum-like character that is quite heavy in details regarding protruding bones, sinew, ligaments etc. The look of the model is correct *to me* in Silo - it is the way I painstakingly made it. I am now looking to finally ( after 3 years off and on ) rig it and also tweak it in C4D.

Also, thank you for that understanding of subD's. Very insightful and interesting.

I remember in Zbrush many moons ago a feature that 'amplified' details. I may of misunderstood it but I always had the impression it could exaggerate details. This function is kind of what I need.


It would be helpful if you could post an image showing what you're talking about. We use Silo, Zbrush, 3d coat, Cinema and Blender almost daily here on characters and I'm not quite sure what your issue is.
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Old 05 May 2013   #10
Your post title clearly states that you think hypernurbs is wrong, that is where I picked up the idea.

How clean is the mesh, perhaps even just changing the mode of the HN will fix it if you have ngons.

Also perhaps you may have some creasing edge/point weighting applied in silo? That is data that sadly wouldn't come over to C4D in any format.

also, apply a 50% grey texture and try rendering it with SPD, set to round geometry and not preserve edges, and see if that achieves your look better. HN is softer/rounder than the old linear method.
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Old 05 May 2013   #11
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