Vray vs. C4D Physical Render Engine

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Old 06 June 2013   #61
Originally Posted by sneather: Thanks. But the nice-looking renders from Vray aren't in question. My entire concern, and one of the primary reasons I started this thread, was to determine how well Vray would fit into my existing style of production, and more importantly, post-production. I'm frankly extremely disappointed that there is no demo version available. I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to try out a piece of software before purchasing, and that includes offerings from some extremely small outfits.


If you are using AR currently then your pipeline will have to change.
Vray offers pretty much everything you need to get your renders done...and is used in production successfully by many.
Now, anytime you shift your render engine you are going to change your pipeline...this is pipelines are largely built around a renderer.

So in that case...your current pipeline will not remain the same. The way passes are generated between Vray and AR are different. So obviously you will need to shift your pipeline.

The lack of a demo is unfortunate, the only thing I can suggest there is going to the vray forum, outlining your current workflow and expectations, and have stefan help you figure out how your pipeline would need to change.

Really though...the quality and speed out of vray is worth the pipeline adjustment.
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Old 06 June 2013   #62
Originally Posted by Tyrus86: What exactly isn't working with PR and OpenEXR. I can easily extract depth data from an EXR rendered with PR. Could you elaborate your problem?


Can you explain your workflow on how you got it to work from C4D to AE? I could be wrong and it could be that AE can't interpret the EXR data in a useable fashion without something like Pixelcloud.
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Old 06 June 2013   #63
Originally Posted by Troyan: Can you explain your workflow on how you got it to work from C4D to AE? I could be wrong and it could be that AE can't interpret the EXR data in a useable fashion without something like Pixelcloud.


I second this request, please.
I just installed the fnord ProEXR plugin in AfterEffects, and the only channels it's seeing out of Cinema, are the usual RBGA. I know the plugin is working, because it's doing the extra things which the instructions indicate. But there is simply no extra data coming from Cinema.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #64
Originally Posted by sneather: I second this request, please.
I just installed the fnord ProEXR plugin in AfterEffects, and the only channels it's seeing out of Cinema, are the usual RBGA. I know the plugin is working, because it's doing the extra things which the instructions indicate. But there is simply no extra data coming from Cinema.


I'm thinking that you're supposed to be able to use the blue channel data with the data set to Camera, but I don't think there is a plugin, besides pixelcloud, that can translate that blue channel into z-depth data. I could be wrong but I see no other way and there is definitely no z-depth data coming out of Cinema in the OpenEXR.
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Old 06 June 2013   #65
Originally Posted by sneather: Thanks. But the nice-looking renders from Vray aren't in question. My entire concern, and one of the primary reasons I started this thread, was to determine how well Vray would fit into my existing style of production, and more importantly, post-production. I'm frankly extremely disappointed that there is no demo version available. I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to try out a piece of software before purchasing, and that includes offerings from some extremely small outfits.


Here's my thoughts, for what it's worth:

- Vray the rendering engine, developed by Chaos Group, is battle tested and simply awesome.

- Vray4C4D, which is not developed by Chaos Group, has many bugs, strange behaviors and broken features that never seem to get fixed. Instead, the tiny dev team has been working on the next release for something like 2 years and they refuse to update customers on when the update/fixes are coming. Admittedly, they are having to overhaul the whole damned thing but still, their refusal to be more candid about updates has created a huge thread of angry users on their website.

- This delay is a problem because they've promised that it will fix so many current issues, but it also shows that the dev team isn't setting milestones and time tables, and sticking to them. That's a scary thought when you're about to hand them $1k and rely on their product to make your living.

- About that thread of angry users on their website I just mentioned - you can't access that thread, or any other meaningful info on their website, because it's all hidden away until after you pay $1k for a license. Until you pay, you wouldn't know people have been having these problems and have been waiting so long for an update. I don't think Stefan is a dishonest man, I'm sure these forums are hidden away so they don't waste time providing support to people who just pirated the software, etc. but still, between that and the lack of a demo/trial new users just have to make a leap of faith that, for now, isn't rewarded.

- My studio was asking the same questions you are, but lacking a demo we bought a single license to test. Stefan was VERY responsive to support emails, there is no question that he stays on top of support and is very helpful. But for us, that wasn't enough to overcome the sketchy feeling we got from the whole affair so we're back to just using C4D's physical renderer. There are studios out there doing great work with it (like Aixsponza) so obviously results will vary.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #66
that is not really true, everybody can register in the forum, it is public, linked direct on the webpage (vrayforc4d.com), and can access the update info thread, as well as any other threads. thats was and is so. there we post regularly the things we work on and inform users or whoever is interested on the state of the update progress. so nothing is hidden, all can read all infos, user's posts and threads, we try to be very transparent.
the render engine (V-Ray core) used is developed by Chaosgroup.

that the wait, which was longer than our initial plan until these new features are ready, is of course not nice (also not for us) that is clear. still the work has to be done to make those wished features possible within the c4d sdk. the last update with fixes and new vray core 2.35 (from Chaosgroup) had been not so long ago in late November by the way, fixing most known bugs. several other fix updates the months before. We try to give updates whenever possible. Our team and chaosgroup work continuous on the software. Our dev team is one of the biggest among the c4d plugins and engines.

also maxon or other companies don't tell you their internal dates of releases or planned features of forthcoming releases (for good reasons, as in all software things can change, tend to take longer, etc). we tell and show the users at least what we work on. that we do not publish a date, doesnst mean we have no time plans and milestones. we try to give as much info as possible, and to bring in as many features as possible to c4d. over time we will have same as maya or max vray, thats why we do the big update work atm. which engine one prefer or what you need greatly depends on what you make overall obviously.

Stefan
vrayforc4d.com
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V-Ray on FB:: http://www.facebook.com/vrayforc4d
http://VRAYforC4D.net
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Last edited by lllab : 06 June 2013 at 08:31 PM.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #67
Stefan:

Can you please comment on the lack of a trial/demo version of VrayforC4D? I can't remember the last time a piece of software I was interested in buying didn't offer that important test option.

Thanks.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #68
the last demo was used to make a fully working crack sadly which did cost us many. the current versions around we recognize due some things.
at the moment we have full work on the update, after that we might see for better/saver systems, we have some ideas. bigger studios can get test drives by the way via contracts (we reserve the right to decide by case though)

there are also other software without by the way, zbrush i think stopped their demos 2 years ago, and some cad apps have no classic demo options (for similar reasons all i guess)
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V-Ray on FB:: http://www.facebook.com/vrayforc4d
http://VRAYforC4D.net
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Last edited by lllab : 06 June 2013 at 05:27 PM.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #69
Originally Posted by lllab: the last demo was used to make a fully working crack sadly which did cost us many. the current versions around we recognize due some things.
at the moment we have full work on the update, after that we might see for better/saver systems, we have some ideas. bigger studios can get test drives by the way via contracts (we reserve the right to decide by case though)

there are also other software without by the way, zbrush i think stopped their demos 2 years ago, and some cad apps have no classic demo options (for similar reasons all i guess)


I can only imagine how difficult it must be to combat the pirates out there. Unfortunately, that's just part of the business now, and so too is competition. There's no better way to make a decision on software, than hands-on. But without the option, I'll likely look elsewhere for my rendering needs.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #70
Originally Posted by lllab: everybody can register in the forum, it is public, linked direct on the webpage (vrayforc4d.com), and can access the update info thread, as well as any other threads. thats was and is so. there we post regularly the things we work on and inform users or whoever is interested on the state of the update progress. so nothing is hidden, all can read all infos, user's posts and threads, we try to be very transparent


What info thread are you referring to?

The only thread in the News & Announcements section of your forum with ANY recent activity is a Merry Christmas thread that's 2 years old. In that thread, you point people to what you call the "main update thread" for more information, but the link you provide leads to a locked forum that is fully inaccessible to users who don't have valid serial numbers. You even say in that post "and please update your user data, the serial is missing yet. this is needed to use this forum."

The link below points to the thread I'm referring to above:

http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthr...?t=10905&page=5

The problem here is that most pros look at the forums for given software to get a sense of how large and active the user community is, what kinds of issues they are reporting and how happy they seem in general with the software. If you lock support threads away behind a wall that requires a serial number, you are cheating prospective clients out of the opportunity to decide if your software will work for them. Doubly so if you don't offer a trial/demo.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #71
by all respect, what you say is wrong. nothing is locked, what you say is not right. i dont understand what you say:

every part and all threads of the forum are visible - to everybody who once registers (what anyone can do):
http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/index.php - there are threads every day where users communicate with us. everybody can see that, nothing bad at all.

>> everybody can see ALL parts of the forum, 100% of it is public , also what people ask for support, one can see all that. one can read ALL threads, not only news and announcements, the support thread is also public to everybody who registers. no serial needed! hundreds of non users look at it every week,
one can see all, and see what users ask or for what they need help.
example (register once) :http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthr...t=12680&page=25

it is very important to us to have as much transparency as possible.

only posting is limited to real legal users, only legal users get support, dont mix that up (your account is locked for reasons you know). for posting you need valid user data& serial, NOT to read it. all is free readable. nothing hidden.

regards
stefan
vrayforc4d.com
__________________
V-Ray on FB:: http://www.facebook.com/vrayforc4d
http://VRAYforC4D.net
http://www.3dtools.info
http://rhino.io

Last edited by lllab : 06 June 2013 at 08:32 PM.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #72
Stefan:

I registered with your forum, and yet BOTH the "General" and "Support" sections are listed as "PRIVATE". Not only can I not post anything, but I can't even read a single thread.

So, I'm not sure what you are talking about.

But let's take a step back. I'm obviously a perspective customer. But with no demo, and no easy access to forum dialogue, how do you think that affects my decision to invest in your product?

This was never intended to be an attack thread (anyone can read from the beginning to see). But as the discussion has evolved, it has brought some issues to light.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #73
Originally Posted by sneather: Stefan:

I registered with your forum, and yet BOTH the "General" and "Support" sections are listed as "PRIVATE". Not only can I not post anything, but I can't even read a single thread.

So, I'm not sure what you are talking about.

But let's take a step back. I'm obviously a perspective customer. But with no demo, and no easy access to forum dialogue, how do you think that affects my decision to invest in your product?

This was never intended to be an attack thread (anyone can read from the beginning to see). But as the discussion has evolved, it has brought some issues to light.


He's right, and I also have to chime in that when I do log into the forums as a user, I'm still not seeing any recent pertinent threads. It's like they're all hidden no matter what.
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I reject your reality and substitute my own
 
Old 06 June 2013   #74
i registered as a test user and can see all, [edit:seems ok working as it should,we double verified]

no thread is hidden Troyan, there is also no recent "pertinent" thread, not sure what is meant by that, just the main info thread on 1.5. where we talk with our users.
and the normal users threads.
everybody can read it and see the infos and post

we do not hide any threads
this is the info thread: http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthr...t=12680&page=25
if you are registered fully and logged in you see all threads. as said everybody can register it took me 30 seconds to register.

cheers
Stefan

p.s sneathers, i verified, "registered users are set to "view forum"so shoudl work, did you confirm the email you get when registering? this is essential. it seems sneather you did not fully register yet if you didn't click on the verification emails link.
i just double checked and as normal registered user one does see all.

p.s.s.: we verified and for sure all work as should. all is visible.
it is as said important to click on the verification email you get when registering(check spam in case).

here i logged in as a fresh registered "testuser", what you see is the 1.5 info thread:

__________________
V-Ray on FB:: http://www.facebook.com/vrayforc4d
http://VRAYforC4D.net
http://www.3dtools.info
http://rhino.io

Last edited by lllab : 06 June 2013 at 04:40 PM.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #75
Originally Posted by lllab: i registered as a test user and can see all, [edit:seems ok working as it should,we double verified]

no thread is hidden Troyan, there is also no recent "pertinent" thread, not sure what is meant by that, just the main info thread on 1.5. where we talk with our users.
everybody can read it and see the infos and post

we do not hide any threads (there is nothing to hide)
this is the info thread: http://forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthr...t=12680&page=25
if you are registered fully and logged in you see all threads. as said everybody can register it took me 30 seconds to register.

cheers
Stefan

p.s sneathers, i verified, "registered users are set to "view forum"so shoudl work, did you confirm the email you get when registering? this is essential. it seems sneather you did not fully register yet if you didn't click on the verification emails link.
i just double checked and as normal registered user one does see all.

p.s.s.: we verified and all seem to work as should.
it is as said important to click on the verification email you get when registering(check spam in case).

here i logged in as a fresh registered "testuser", what you see is the 1.5 info thread:



Yep, I'm seeing everything now. I'm not saying you were hiding anything, I was saying last week when I logged in to look at threads I wasn't seeing any when I checked all of the sections. Not sure what the issue was then. Cheers!
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I reject your reality and substitute my own
 
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