Vray vs. C4D Physical Render Engine

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Old 05 May 2013   #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mism
VRay's multipass will be significantly overhauled in the upcoming update so I'd be weary of basing any decisions on the current version.

I don't know how well used RLA or RPF are anymore (I can't get Nuke to see their layers)?
An EXR depth map that covers the scene gives you the flexibility to apply DOF to any object and adjust the focus to any point. As part of a multilayered EXR we find it works very well (from VRay at least, we don't tend to use the standard renderer).


Yeah, but also to base you decision on Vray update coming any time soon. It's been a long wait already, and there is no date that has been set. Could be another year for all we know.
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Old 05 May 2013   #17
"Could be another year for all we know."
no, even though no public date is set, this is not very likely. - it was much work indeed, but we have most of the work done now.
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Last edited by lllab : 05 May 2013 at 11:55 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllab
"Could be another year for all we know."
no, even though no public date is set, this is not very likely. - it was much work indeed, but we have most of the work done now.
stefan


Cant wait! Thank Stefan
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Old 05 May 2013   #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllab
"Could be another year for all we know."
no, even though no public date is set, this is not very likely. - it was much work indeed, but we have most of the work done now.
stefan


Is there going to be a demo version available? I need to try out the render system in my normal workflow, in order to see whether it will provide what I need.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneather
You're not getting it, but it's a little hard to explain. The Z-depth data in the .RPF file stores all the raw data necessary to shift focus (in post) from the film plane of the camera, all the way to infinity. You can shift that at will, depending on your post needs - and particularly based on client insanity. Because that channel data is non-anti-aliased, it provides the mandatory foundation for certain DOF (and other) effects. I repeat, that hard-edge data is mandatory. You can NOT just use the depth pass out of Cinema. The nice anti-aliased edges will wreck the way those edges are solved in the filter. So, it's a moot point whether the depth pass is set up correctly in C4D. It simply isn't going to afford any flexibility in AE.

Here's another simple example. Try using your depth pass with the built in "3D Channel" plugins in AE. It's not going to work. Those plugs entirely rely on z-depth data, normals, etc. which one gets from a .RPF file.


Have you tried using the Zblur2 plugin to generate the depth map? It does a much better job than Cinema and the Frischluft Lenscare plugin for AE lets you "Shift depth focus at will" using it. I've used it on a lot of projects creating shifting focus from foreground to background and hard edges haven't been a problem. It does create an extra asset to manage but it's much better than nothing.
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Old 05 May 2013   #21
Yes, let me second Frischluft Lenscare as well- it is lightyears ahead of other Z Depth plugins as far as quality and flexibility goes. It can do stuff that other AE (and Nuke and Fusion) plugins simply cannot.

http://www.frischluft.com/lenscare/
 
Old 05 May 2013   #22
Adding to the lenscare comments, as long as you have a good depth pass with a nice range on the Z then you can mimic rack focus in most cases with frischluft. If you have a very shallow contrasty depth map then you wont be able to do much (probably would be the same deal with the 3D z data too).

I used to use RLA and RPF years ago but needed to stop once I got bigger jobs with longer render times, and needed to render on a farm using NET (rpfs dont work on NET). In that respect, those formats are a catch 22, Work great on a single box, but you can't really use them on heavy jobs if you need a farm. I may be wrong as its been awhile, but I dont believe you can get bokeh/blooming lens effects out of your rpf via the 3d depth of field effect in AE--it just blurs the footage. But that may not be important for the work you are doing.

After all these years, i still don't have a perfect dof workflow, and not sure there is one. I will sometimes even resort to making custom depth maps using 3d world gradients in camera space for the most control.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #23
Chris recently updated the Zblur2 plugin to include multi-processor support, so it's super speedy over net render. It's honestly the best way to go for flexible DOF in post.
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Old 05 May 2013   #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelOtron

After all these years, i still don't have a perfect dof workflow, and not sure there is one.


I think this is a holy grail of sorts - to have full & high quality control over DOF in post. I'm hoping that once deep compositing becomes more available & economical (which is just a matter of time), this may become possible.

Another way this might eventually be attained is is if the geometry and lights/textures of a scene could be baked & brought into a compositing app. While technically possible right now with certain apps, it's a bit of headache, and there isn't a solid workflow available.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #25
Wouldn't the upcoming Cineware, the unholy union of Adobe and Maxon, address this very thing?
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Old 05 May 2013   #26
I usually use Frishluft in AE as well, but I think that the crown has been stolen by this plugin for Nuke:

http://peregrinelabs.com/bokeh/

The fact that it is used for the beautiful bokeh effects in the new Pixar short "The Blue Umbrella " speaks volumes for it. I have never used it, but it does have "deep data" support which is part of the new EXR 2.0 spec. I usually struggle getting no artifacts on edges with post DOF, so having EXR2.0 export from C4D and support in Frushluft would be a great thing!

The raytraced DOF is C4D certainly looks better to me than the DOF in Vray, and along with the MB support are two of the best reasons for sticking with the "physical render" (jeez I hate that name though!) in C4D for certain jobs.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #27
"The raytraced DOF is C4D certainly looks better to me than the DOF in Vray"

they look exact the same in vray if you set the bias i nb okeh settings in vray to 0.0 vray has extra control to how the lense type is, so you can tune to different looks. default is 0.5 atm. if you want the one like c4d simple set the bias to 0.

the mb atm works only in phyiscal render, yes, in the update we work on it works also in vray (quite faster than in physcial), this part is already working in internal builts, hopefully not too far away to give all.
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Old 05 May 2013   #28
Ok, so, I got confirmation from Chris at Biomekk that his Zblur2 plugin Also exports Z depth data.

"You can already get z channel information using the Position Pass post effect with Space set to Camera. The Blue channel will be your distance from camera."

So, long story short, get Zblur2 for the depth data and Lenscare for the DOF in AE.

Zblur2 link
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Old 05 May 2013   #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyan
Ok, so, I got confirmation from Chris at Biomekk that his Zblur2 plugin Also exports Z depth data.

"You can already get z channel information using the Position Pass post effect with Space set to Camera. The Blue channel will be your distance from camera."

So, long story short, get Zblur2 for the depth data and Lenscare for the DOF in AE.

Zblur2 link


Interesting. So how does the 3d depth plugin in AE read the depth data? What format do you render?

EDIT--oh...so you are saying lenscare can read 3d z-depth data. Did not know that---trying it now...

Last edited by JoelDubin : 05 May 2013 at 03:14 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelOtron
Interesting. So how does the 3d depth plugin in AE read the depth data? What format do you render?

EDIT--oh...so you are saying lenscare can read 3d z-depth data. Did not know that---trying it now...


Dunno, but I'm going to try it the moment I can get some air . Trying to get this project done so I can get XParticles . I want it SO BAD.
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