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Old 05-08-2013, 08:37 PM   #1
leed
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Open EXR

Just wondering what version of Open EXR is used in C4D.. ??

Cheers

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Old 05-09-2013, 05:33 PM   #2
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just wondering as the new v2 has deep image support

April 9, 2013 - Industrial Light & Magic (ILM) and Weta Digital announce the release of OpenEXR 2.0, the major version update of the open source high dynamic range file format first introduced by ILM and maintained and expanded by a number of key industry leaders including Weta Digital, Pixar Animation Studios, Autodesk and others.

The release includes a number of new features that align with the major version number increase. Amongst the major improvements are:

Deep Data support - Pixels can now store a variable-length list of samples. The main rationale behind deep images is to enable the storage of multiple values at different depths for each pixel. OpenEXR 2.0 supports both hard-surface and volumetric representations for Deep Compositing workflows.


Be good to get our c4d hands on this

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #3
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Given the format is 4 weeks old, Id be very surprised if any of the major apps support it yet.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:46 PM   #4
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Yes I know.. found that bit out a bit later..

exiting stuff though..

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:56 AM   #5
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I'm keen to start using it, largely because of this:

"OpenEXR v2 also introduces the concept of "Multi-Part" files that contain a number of separate, but related, images in one file. Access to any part is independent of the others."

I believe this will improve disk read times when you only need to use a few passes from a multipass file.

Deep Image support is interesting but the files are massive, without a very fast RAID I can imagine it being frustrating to work with.
It will be interesting to see if C4D or VRay start supporting Deep Images, I'm not holding my breath.
 
Old 05-10-2013, 01:17 PM   #6
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current c4d's OpenExr is same version as photoshop plugin - http://download.savannah.gnu.org/re...penexr/?C=M;O=A
 
Old 06-05-2013, 12:53 AM   #7
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Am I missing something, or is the current OpenEXR in C4D only able to output RGBA? I've been running tests, and that's all I can get. Which, obviously, is basically useless. What's the use in even including that format if it won't include at least some basic post-production necessities like z-depth, normal maps and vector maps???
 
Old 06-05-2013, 02:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneather
Am I missing something, or is the current OpenEXR in C4D only able to output RGBA? I've been running tests, and that's all I can get. Which, obviously, is basically useless. What's the use in even including that format if it won't include at least some basic post-production necessities like z-depth, normal maps and vector maps???

EXR is an industry standard image fileformat for compressed 16bit and HDR images from ILM and used in pipelines everywhere. It can contain as many layers as you wish, it's up to you to designate what you want in there from your multipass options, and whether you prefer an encapsulated single file or separate multipass images.

While you must pick and chose what goes in (which helps keep the filesize down to the bare minimum for what you need) it's hardly what I'd consider useless.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per-Anders
EXR is an industry standard image fileformat for compressed 16bit and HDR images from ILM and used in pipelines everywhere. It can contain as many layers as you wish, it's up to you to designate what you want in there from your multipass options, and whether you prefer an encapsulated single file or separate multipass images.

While you must pick and chose what goes in (which helps keep the filesize down to the bare minimum for what you need) it's hardly what I'd consider useless.


No! I realize exactly what the great advantages are with EXR. I meant that the output which I was getting from C4D was useless, because it was no better than RGBA.

But I had no earthly idea that you need to use the multi-pass settings to enable the openEXR file. That's a huge revelation. Can you please elaborate?
 
Old 06-05-2013, 02:59 AM   #10
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I just performed a test, just rendering a still right from the "multi-pass" render window. It worked. I simply added all in the pull down. And sure enough, the EXR file imported into AE with all those layers. Great.

However. And it's a big issue for me. The depth channel was still just the plain anti-aliased grey-scale image. Not true z-depth data. That one point, right there, is a deal-killer for me.
 
Old 06-05-2013, 03:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneather
I just performed a test, just rendering a still right from the "multi-pass" render window. It worked. I simply added all in the pull down. And sure enough, the EXR file imported into AE with all those layers. Great.

However. And it's a big issue for me. The depth channel was still just the plain anti-aliased grey-scale image. Not true z-depth data. That one point, right there, is a deal-killer for me.


In any image format (RLA and RPF included) the z-depth info is just a greyscale bitmap too. The file format has no bearing on this only the possible bit depth that can be used to store this information.

With information such as z-depth and motion vectors and AA there's a fundamental problem with composting in that either way it's going to be incorrect. This is simply due to pixel coverage, e.g. for depth information if you have a section of an object that passes through the pixel closer to the camera then the image will either have to pick the depth of the foreground or background objects, or an aliased midpoint (the result of subpixel sampling), all three options will in fact give you an incorrect result when applying a depth of field blur or color correction in post for some part of the pixel and you will get artifacts. In fact the AA option will work with depth fog and color hence it's what's been picked for Cinema 4D, unfortunately there is no option to control AA without disabling it for the whole image. So unless you supply pixel fragment information (which would make any image unusably large) then the values are going to be wrong when applied to the image aliased or not and regardless of coverage information. IMO Your best bet if precision is required is to render larger with no AA and then scale down in your composting app, meanwhile you should contact maxon and request that they add AA options per multipass pass.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:30 AM   #12
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In practical terms I find that the aliased depth pass works fine for DOF with Frischluft's plugin in most cases. The exception usually occurs when there's a very bright object that's well separated in Z from surrounding objects. In that situation the RLA/RPF non-AA depth pass works best. Would be very nice if Cinema offered a per-pass AA setting.
 
Old 06-05-2013, 03:35 AM   #13
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Sorry to disagree, but the z-data is not the same as the depth image matte generated by C4D.

The simplest way to point this out, is as follows:

Render a .RPF image with z-depth data enabled in the options. Import into AE. Apply the basic "Depth matte" effect, and click anywhere on the image. In the "info" palette, you'll see X, Y but also Z position data listed.

Try the same thing with the basic grey-scale "depth" pass from C4D, and you'll see what I mean. Nothing. The data doesn't exist.

There are filters (upon which I rely) that must have that real z-depth data. Without such, they simply do not work.

So, unless I'm missing yet another render option in C4D, the OpenEXR test files I'm generating do not have that necessary z-depth data.

Last edited by sneather : 06-05-2013 at 03:41 AM.
 
Old 06-05-2013, 03:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamT
In practical terms I find that the aliased depth pass works fine for DOF with Frischluft's plugin in most cases. The exception usually occurs when there's a very bright object that's well separated in Z from surrounding objects. In that situation the RLA/RPF non-AA depth pass works best. Would be very nice if Cinema offered a per-pass AA setting.


I only wish I could say the same thing. But I'm doing those tests right this very minute, and the differences are absolutely night and day. Using the basic AA depth matte from C4D makes Lenscare look just like the standard DOF plugin from AE.

Using the real z-depth data in a .RPF file looks fantastic - as always.

But again, it's not just Lenscare where this data is pivotal. Maybe I'm an odd-ball, but I use the Depth Matte AE plugin extensively. It's such a great way to do all kinds of things in post. But that's out of the question with just the depth pass from Cinema's Multi Pass structure.
 
Old 06-05-2013, 04:44 AM   #15
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that fact that pixel sampling the zepth pass doesn't give you a zdepth value is really more of a flaw with After effects than any thing else, although C4D's fairly plain storing of channels and most image formats being layer based doesn't help either.

For example in our software at work if we sample the zdepth we get a Zvalue, but the zdepth is a float image. Thing is that the exr knows it's a zchannel, not a black and white image in an rgb layer or a generic alpha as photoshop stores it in a psd. Now how can it get that accurate Zspace informaton from an image. Because a float image is simply a agrid of cels that each store a value, nothing more. The fact that we decode these pixels into red green or blue is a rendering process we do to that data. We can store anything we'd like in there. SO yes a Zdepth image as a float is capable of everything that the z data in rpf is. The antialiasing does screw up the data at edges, which is a concern, and something C4D should allow one to rectify but it isn't a game stopper by any means.

That said you guys have learned how to use position passes right? Set it to camera and use the Zpass and a non antialiased Zdepth with amazing precision, and get both Z and why depth gradients simultaneously. Far more useful if you ask me.
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