Adobe announces no more CS... Going subscription only...

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Old 05 May 2013   #31
To be honest I haven't really understood the rage that CC is receiving.

I understand some of the arguments and the price difference between US and EU versions has always irritated me but that was always there and as a matter of fact the price difference has come down lately.

A few years back buying the full suite was a few thousand euro (Ι can't remember the exact price but it was definitely upwards of 2000 euro - probably somewhere around the 3000 mark-) here in Greece. Now with the pricing that has started last year the whole suite costs a few hundred dollars (360 euro. VAT is deducted if you're a freelancer or business). That's an insane amount of savings and a cost I don't even think about. It's payed on a monthly basis and it's something that is very affordable.
360 euro a few years back didn't even pay the upgrade price for one program let alone for the whole suite.

On top of that I have the chance to download some of the other programs I don't use and mess with them something I didn't have the chance of doing before. If you bought the design suite you were stuck with that and upgrading to a fuller suite of programs would basically cost you a lot more.
Now things are very flexible and for people that use their products every day like I do it's a no brainer! You just take your credit card out and be done with it!

As a designer I'll probably use Adobe products until I retire. I don't know if the scene will change in a few years but so far Adobe is the industry standard for the creative business.
Let's not discuss the alternatives that exist right now. They are not up to par. Say what you will about Adobe's bloated features and code, but you just can't do what you can do in Adobe's programs in other alternatives. I'm talking more about Photoshop Illlustrator and In design here rather than After Effects.

It'll be interesting to see if a new player comes in and changes everything. Like what Indesign did to Quark. It basically destroyed Quark's dominance in the DTP business. Now no one even remembers who Quark is!
But I don't see that happening anytime soon. And even if that happens Adobe's dominance in the creative business is so strong it'll probably take many years for everyone to switch to the new player. I think it'll be hard for a new player to come in and take that market
Especially since Adobe seems to understand that they need to adapt to survive. They sure are less arrogant than Quark. A decade ago buying Quark Xpress would cost somewhere around 3000 or so euro just for one program and Quark being extremely strict on where you could use it (basically just one machine).

I guess for people that don't use most of Adobe's programs the pricing might not be as attractive but maybe alternatives could do the job for them?
Pixelmator get's some very positive feedback in the Mac side. I haven't even bothered testing it since it doesn't make any sense for me to use it as a Photoshop alternative but it might do the job for others. And it's just 14 euro in the App store.


Wow that's a long post!!
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Old 05 May 2013   #32
Originally Posted by phobos: Especially since Adobe seems to understand that they need to adapt to survive.


It's a shame they went for the easy option of changing the payment system rather than make compelling reasons for users to upgrade through worthwhile updates and particularly improvements to the workflow.

I very much doubt any of the applications will change much going forward now people will be tied in, Adobe will never make a radical move like Apple did with FCPX and have a re-look at their apps and do something courageously different.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #33
I fear same thing... We can never now that is there coming any great updates, but we still have to pay every month even if there comes nothing great for years - never ever..

And that is true also, that i might have to pay 50€ from using adobe products in few days in month, it would be better if i could pay from those days when i use it: 365 active days with 300€... But that sounds too high price too because after that i could almost upgrade my CS production premium and use it as long as my PC lives (3-4years).

It isn't just same thing own the product than rent it, because if i buy it - i know how much money i will spent for it. Unlike in rent system, i may pay a lot from same features which i use from years to years. I don't need all those features what CC offers to me, and i am not going to need those all small updates.

I just don't understand that why we can not have two option: buy and rent. Maybe it is because they are developing cloud system which will be only work in internet - system where you don't download software to your computer anymore - i think this is the reason why they are forcing us to rent it only.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #34
Originally Posted by phobos: Let's not discuss the alternatives that exist right now. They are not up to par. Say what you will about Adobe's bloated features and code, but you just can't do what you can do in Adobe's programs in other alternatives. I'm talking more about Photoshop Illlustrator and In design here rather than After Effects.


I would have to agree with you on InDesign - it's great. However, both for Illustrator and Photoshop (aside from the 3d and video fluff and talking about pure image editing/compositing), there are actually better alternatives out there. Photoshop's layer system is quite inflexible. Illustrator is cumbersome and slow compared to other alternatives. For digital painting there are also better alternatives.

And let's not even mention the awful and outdated web export in both apps. The png export is almost unusable without the help of secondary tools.

I have been an avid and loyal user of Photoshop since v3, and switched 8 months ago to Photoline.

Superior layer system by far:
-any image mode (rgb, lab, cmyk,, greyscale, monochrome) per layer(!),
-full 8/16/32bit support per layer,
-pages (including multi pdf page import),
-each layer can have its own size and resolution settings,
-virtual instanced layers,
-layer opacity that goes from -200(!) up to +200,
-mostly non-destructive workflow,
-as many layer masks (vector/bitmap any bit depth) per layer as you want, with the option to combine layer stacks to generate a grouped layer mask,
- layer masks can also be cloned/instanced across layers and pages.
-Full vector support,
-loading and saving of multi-layered EXR files (only image editor that does this out of the box),
-adjustment layers (which can also be instanced and cloned),
-adjustment layers that can be grouped into one master adjustment layer,
-adjustment layers can be applied to layer masks(!),
-layer effects,
-applying curves in RGB/Lab/HSV/HIS regardless of image mode(!),
-guide editor,
-a selection stays selected even after saving and re-opening a file,
-pixel precise vectors, or true vectors, vector objects that remain live....

The list goes on.

The general workflow is far less destructive than Photoshop and more object-oriented. The only thing I miss is the excellent quick mask editor in Photoshop. But for that I use a photoshop plugin (most general PH plugins work in Photoline).
All for the price of 57 euros. It can be installed on a usb stick, and the installation file is a mere 17mb!

For pure image editing Photoline is more than on par, arguably ahead of the curve. I absolutely love it, and although I have a license of cs6, I only use Photoshop for the odd Photoshop file conversion. 99.5% of my work is now done in Photoline. Because it does things more efficiently.

Last edited by hvanderwegen : 05 May 2013 at 09:10 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #35
HitFilm is coming to the Mac too and there's a kick-starter setup to help them get some development hardware in to accelerate the process.

HitFilm is a Smoke style editor/Compositor/Finisher and incredibly powerful. Crap name though which cheapens it. It has only been on the PC but now they're bringing it to the Mac.

There are plenty of options out there and I'll be looking at Photoline thanks to hvanderwegen's recommendation. On my home Mac I've been using Pixelmator which has been great but for professional wok you really need more (not always) but Photoline looks worth a look.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #36
I just downloaded Photoline for Mac trial.

To be honest, the UI design puts me off from going any further with it. It looks like something from the 80s...
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Old 05 May 2013   #37
I don't like this model at all.

Having bought CS1/2/3 and then finally upgraded to 5.5 18 months ago, i've paid quite a lot into adobe packages, where many of my peers have been using pirated versions of 6.
I don't like being forced to pay a subscription for a bunch of software I never use, but be held to ransom effectively for those key apps I do (Photoshop/AfterEffects/Illustrator etc).

Im considering just upgrading my production bundle to CS6 for £350, just so I have the 'latest' standalone version in a hope that I can keep using it for as long as possible, and avoiding this Cloud method. Really aggressive move on Adobes part I think.

Adam :}
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Old 05 May 2013   #38
Originally Posted by mustardseed: I just downloaded Photoline for Mac trial.

To be honest, the UI design puts me off from going any further with it. It looks like something from the 80s...


I know and I share the feeling but when you overpass the UI you are not going to look back anymore.

I gave a real chance and I can´t and I don´t want to use any other image editor. Is simply a powerful software.

Cheers
JC
 
Old 05 May 2013   #39
Originally Posted by mustardseed: I just downloaded Photoline for Mac trial.

To be honest, the UI design puts me off from going any further with it. It looks like something from the 80s...


The icons can be set to greyscale ones. Also handy: three different sizes. The latest beta offers much more control in regards to panel customization. All icons (photoline files!) and menu entries can be edited in the config files.

Also, the default panel set is not nearly the most efficient one to work with, and you need to customize it. The newer beta version re-arranged and improved the panel names as well.

I can only say: don't judge the book by its cover - the gui actually works very well, and is quite customizable (except for the grey colour used). The workflow is a bit different, as is some of the terminology: selection-->lasso, levels-->histogram correction.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #40
Petition

Please sign this petition in the hopes of being heard.

https://www.change.org/petitions/ad...scription-model

I doubt it will change Adobe's direction and a monopolistic entity such as them has very little reason to be concerned over user's needs.

Terry
 
Old 05 May 2013   #41
Originally Posted by ChrisCousins: Almost - but the crucial difference is that if your installation gets in a tangle somehow, or you're stuck offline and something goes wrong, Cinema doesn't lock you out of using it.

This has happened to me a couple of times now, using CS6 not even CreativeCloud, where I've suddenly been told I have '-1 days remaining on my subscription', and been dumped into demo mode. It's then my problem to fix the installation, unregister, download updates etc - would have been a massive problem if I was offline.

It's teething problems sure, and I guess they'll sort these out, but the fact that it's a possibility makes me really reluctant to take them up on this 'great offer'.


This is the thing that frightens me most. I am not too fussed about the cost. I'd appreciate it a bit cheaper but that's another thing.

If you are off line it can and does give you an ultimatum effectively locking you out. This is just crazy and as you say Chris it's up to you to sort it out, by ringing adobe etc. This is not good enough. We are held to ransom even as paying customers.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #42
Originally Posted by rsquires: If you are off line it can and does give you an ultimatum effectively locking you out.


Quote: You will need to be online when you install and license your software. If you have an annual membership, you'll be asked to connect to the web to validate your software licenses every 30 days. However, you'll be able to use products for 3 months (99 days) even if you're offline."


Top of the list in the FAQ
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

cheers
brasc
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Last edited by brasco : 05 May 2013 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Tidy up
 
Old 05 May 2013   #43
I don't think the 'online' access part is of any real significance, for me it's simply about having £50 a month going out continually for a suite of software, most of which I don't need or use. There wont be hugely significant continual updates, just as there hasn't been in the standalone - you can effectively skip a version here or there, with no great loss to your workflow, and upgrade only when you feel its of benefit/or can budget for it.

I guess it seems silly to feel resistance to some extent considering our phones, TV options and other things are billed on a monthly basis, but for me, when I buy a tool (hardware or software), I personally prefer to be doing it when I choose, and can afford it.

Adam
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Old 05 May 2013   #44
Definitely, it's the removal of choice that's upsetting people.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Adobe to accommodate these users, just to keep a cap on the growing PR disaster.

cheers
brasc
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Old 05 May 2013   #45
I hope you are right!

Originally Posted by brasco: Definitely, it's the removal of choice that's upsetting people.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Adobe to accommodate these users, just to keep a cap on the growing PR disaster.

cheers
brasc
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