Attach/Wrap a Scalp (with hair) to a Head

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  04 April 2013
Attach/Wrap a Scalp (with hair) to a Head

What is the recommended method for attaching a scalp (which has hair on it) to a head?

I am using a scalp for the hair, as opposed to applying the hair directly to the head, for the following reasons:

1. The scalp geometry can be designed to suit the hair style without impacting the head geometry.
2. This method allows for easy swapping of scalps with different hair styles.

I know that I can parent the scalp to the head joint which will cause the scalp to move with the head. However, I would like the scalp to also move with facial movements (e.g., raised brows, open jaw, smile, etc.).

Another example would be a moustache scalp. In this case, I would want the moustache scalp to move with the head (e.g. parented to the head joint) and to move with the character's upper lip (the solution I am looking for).

In Maya, this can done with a wrap deformer. Cinema 4D's wrap deformer does not appear to behave in the same way.

What is the Cinema 4D way to achieve the above?
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by JabbaTheNut: What is the Cinema 4D way to achieve the above?
Use the Mesh Deformer.
 
  04 April 2013
Bunk,

That works perfectly! Thanks.

BTW, I was experimenting with some of the other deformers. The Surface Deformer appears to also do what I need (i.e., move scalp with head and facial morphs). Do you have an opinion regarding using one over the other?
 
  04 April 2013
As Bunk said, Mesh Deformer is probably the most workable solution, but the Cinema equivalent Maya's wrap deformer is probably the C4D shrinkwrap deformer (not the wrap deformer). That might do the trick but it's a bit fiddly.
 
  04 April 2013
Actually the Surface deformer in Cinema is the closest equivalent of Mayas wrap deformer, it has pretty much the same functionality and should do the trick for this case.

Cheers,
Brian
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by Horganovski: Actually the Surface deformer in Cinema is the closest equivalent of Mayas wrap deformer, it has pretty much the same functionality and should do the trick for this case.

Cheers,
Brian


You're certainly more familiar with Maya than I am, but in this case I'm not sure that the surface deformer is the best choice. In projection mode it won't conform the scalp to the model, and in UV mode ... most head meshes aren't unwrapped in a way that's conducive to UV projecting a scalp.
 
  04 April 2013
Thanks a lot, everyone. This has been a great help to me.
 
  04 April 2013
If you are doing hair for a human character, I wouldn't even bother with a deformer at all. Simply make a copy of the scalp part of the mesh and place its PSR axis to match the head joint exactly. Then simply use a "set driver; set driven" hookup to drive it along with the head.
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  04 April 2013
exactly. Crate all your morphs and joint weights etc on the actual head first, then select the polygons and use the split command, instead second scalp that still has both joint weights and morphs in tact, Then drive the scalps morphs based on the original heads morphs, and add a skin deformer so ti also deforms with the joints. done perfect fit.
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  04 April 2013
That sort of defeats the goal of having one scalp/hair style that can be reused with multiple characters, which is what the OP was seeking.
 
  04 April 2013
Hmm I read it as he wants different hairdos on a single character, not single hairdo on multiple characters
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  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: Hmm I read it as he wants different hairdos on a single character, not single hairdo on multiple characters

Could be, but in that case why not just multiple hair objects?
 
  04 April 2013
I am hesitant to reply at this point, because with every post and counter-post each of you is providing I am learning some pretty cool tips.

I have now tried both the mesh deformer and the surface deformer. Both morph the scalp when the head morphs. However, the surface deformer seems to more closely match with the head morphs. This may be related to my specific scalp geometry relative to the head geometry.

I had seen the split command used for copying polygon selections. However, I did not realize that the morphs on the selected polygons remain in tact. That's awesome!

My original post was referring to multiple hair styles for one character. My instinctive response was to create multiple scalps, each with a different hair style. I could then swap scalps for the style I needed. However, I did not think about simply creating multiple hair objects. I guess I lost the forest through the trees on that one.

In the end, I think I will use a single scalp with multiple hair objects. To achieve the morph behavior, I will either use the surface deformer or the split command strategy. My only concern with the split command strategy is that I may need to change the head morphs after the scalp has been split off. I guess the solution in this case would be to split the scalp off again, after the required morph changes, and transfer the hair style from the old scalp to the new scalp. Is it difficult to transfer a hair style from one scalp to another? I will research that.

The reason I would still use a separate scalp is to have the freedom to design the geometry to suit the hair style (e.g higher poly count, widows peak, side burns, rounded neckline, etc.) without jacking with my head geometry.

Once again, thanks to all of you for an incredibly helpful exchange.

Last edited by JabbaTheNut : 04 April 2013 at 05:46 AM.
 
  04 April 2013
There is hardly any difference between Mesh and Surface deformer. To be honest I forgot about the surface deformer. Both will do the job just fine. The Surface deformer even uses 1.1 kb less memory in my test …so if you are short of memory

The Split command however is bad advice not only because it will screw up your mesh, but also because it means you will have to put the scalp under a HN as well or it will become visible and since you'll hide it, you hair-do will start floating. To prevent that you will need to add an extra Morphtarget to push the scalp a bit back …not to mention you will have to hook the scalpMorph into Expresso setup as well for everything around the mouth that can become quite a hassle.

Quote: The reason I would still use a separate scalp is to have the freedom to design the geometry to suit the hair style (e.g higher poly count, widows peak, side burns, rounded neckline, etc.) without jacking with my head geometry.


That's a good reason to stick with Surface deformer ...and don't forget to slightly push the scalp back

You can split parts of the head but do it manually. Create copy of the head. Set Morph to edit mode, base morph. Make a point selection of the scalp invert the selection and press delete. As far as I know that's the only way to keep the morphs in tact.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by bunk: You can split parts of the head but do it manually. Create copy of the head. Set Morph to edit mode, base morph. Make a point selection of the scalp invert the selection and press delete. As far as I know that's the only way to keep the morphs in tact.

Yes good point, I was in error saying to use the split command, long time since I've had to do it, but yes you need to duplicate and manually delete to keep all the other data in tact. Should be simple enough to make a better split script than C4D's
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Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
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