Important petition : connection between the renderqueue and the pictureviewer

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  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by littledevil: snhook is not specifically tied to the c4d serial and for python plugins there is no
serial management at all. however the alternatives do not look more appealing to
me - mac-id or usb dongle.

the serial is meant to 'expire' on c4d updates. it is there to ensure that the customers
keep buying the plugin, not to prevent pirating. there are no 'secure' methods.


I don't understand what you're saying. I don't have to pay again to get an updated serial number. I just have to send out 10 or 20 e-mails ... after digging around for my previous plugin IDs, contact info., etc. Then, if the developer is still around they send a new plugin ID linked to my new registration number. Or in other cases there's a web form to fill out.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by AdamT: I don't understand what you're saying. I don't have to pay again to get an updated serial number. I just have to send out 10 or 20 e-mails ... after digging around for my previous plugin IDs, contact info., etc. Then, if the developer is still around they send a new plugin ID linked to my new registration number. Or in other cases there's a web form to fill out.


snhook is the class c4d provides for the registration process IlaySHP was refering to. and
what i was trying to say is that tying the plugin serial tio the c4d serial is actually intended,
as it provides several advantages.

  1. it does make sure you can run one license only with one copy of c4d
  2. t gives the dev the control over the process of updating the host application (c4d) and
    if he is willing to give you the update for free.
  3. ]it is not hardware-dependent like a mac address or a usb dongle, which generally provides
    more freedom to the user.

so it gives the dev control over the spread of his software amongst the people who are
willing to pay for it. if he would use a less restrictive method to create the serial, for
example based on your name, it would be easier for you to simply use the same serial
twice instead of buying a second license for a second seat of c4d you are running.

Last edited by littledevil : 04 April 2013 at 10:04 PM.
 
  04 April 2013
the response to this thread is huge, thanks... but for the wrong reasons :-(
i didn't came to this forum to open this can of worms and start a discussion about how to run the customer-service of maxon
(although some valid points are made) only 5 (!?) replies are about not having a full render-preview, this makes me wonder how many people have really looked into what i suggested ?

It seems clear to me that a full render-preview with the queue is only problem for small to medium arch-viz studios, (please proof me wrong)
most of the people who voted seem to work in the arch-viz field, see the responses:
https://www.change.org/petitions/ma...e-pictureviewer

is there anyone who sees a solution for this problem outside the renderqueue (not having a full preview when rendering a lot of images) ?
Can Xpresso create a batch, maybe in combination with the stageobject ?
Is there an option to make a script that makes a batch of c4d files and start them rendering with the pictureviewer open ?
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by peterbmd: the response to this thread is huge, thanks... but for the wrong reasons :-(
i didn't came to this forum to open this can of worms and start a discussion about how to run the customer-service of maxon
(although some valid points are made) only 5 (!?) replies are about not having a full render-preview, this makes me wonder how many people have really looked into what i suggested ?

It seems clear to me that a full render-preview with the queue is only problem for small to medium arch-viz studios, (please proof me wrong)
most of the people who voted seem to work in the arch-viz field, see the responses:
https://www.change.org/petitions/ma...e-pictureviewer

is there anyone who sees a solution for this problem outside the renderqueue (not having a full preview when rendering a lot of images) ?
Can Xpresso create a batch, maybe in combination with the stageobject ?
Is there an option to make a script that makes a batch of c4d files and start them rendering with the pictureviewer open ?


one thing i wanted to ask about your dilemma - you mentioned that you may be sleeping or when away etc when running a batch - if you are sleeping how are you able to see the image or any problems anyway? so the reality is it is non predictable how soon or how late you may catch an image error (also depending on when the bucket happen to get around to the potential problem area of an image)

then you mentioned that when you see a problem in your renders (which i totally understand) but how many of your images do you end up having to stop and fix? 10%? 50%? 90%? - so yes it's nice to have feedback but it is also a bit non-quantifiable as to how it can help you catch the problem or error (what if was not until the very last bucket that showed the problem area for instance)

i would think that under most cased you would start to notice problem areas (like you said chairs floating just off the floor etc) so maybe some quick test renders in known problem areas before you go and set off your multiple jobs would be more effective.

i see this all the time (well usually with more novice users) on the farm here - they rush, rush, rush to get 10, or 20 jobs all queued up and then end up re-rendering them all the next day - taking essentially twice as long as if they just did a couple hours up front of due diligence and checked their scenes before rushing to dump them off on the farm to run

yes, i do like previews - but even NET does not offer any feedback at all, i'd be happy with even some percentage meter that shows how long it is through an image (like say by using even vertical pixels as it's count and if a 800x600 job is down to pixel row 300 it would register as 50%, or in the case of buckets if the image shows a total of 1,000 buckets in the image it could show 50% when 500 buckets are completed) just something may be helpful when running large format or long running jobs on NET would be helpful

dann
__________________
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Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com
http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY, Cycles4D Render Farm
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  04 April 2013
sorry dann, but i'm not gonna explain or defend the workflow of my office here, the "go to bed" was just an example.
i think i can say after 15years 3d-workexperience : a full preview is essential for professional archiviz work
because of the complexity and size of the scenes and the amount of +5000pixels renderings




.....and yes the NET progress-info sucks even more, i'm aware my 'problem' isn't the only 'problem'
 
  04 April 2013
Hi Peter,
funny enough, I was thinking exactly what Dann said.
I'm not opposing your idea, a preview for the Queue would be more than welcome.
On the other hand, if me or anyone else is to support it, I would personally like to be convinced that this is a necessary feature, (not for me cause I'll probably never use it), but for everybody else that might need it.
If Maxon sees the arguments that Dann or I see, they will probably not bother with it.
Convincing "us" will get you closer to convincing Maxon.

Best regards
T
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noseman.org
 
  04 April 2013
Render the still in parts as a picture series.
Then you can check the progress in ie PS.

One way I use is to but a Loft plane made of two
rectangular spline in front of the Camera as a matte object.
The inner spline rectangle makes a "peep hole" and moves
across the scene per frame with a small overlap and
I'm rendering with straight alpha.
This way I only have to place the result on top of
each other in PS or AE.

Cheers
Lennart
__________________
MSA | OSX | xfiles ...Cinema4D Tools
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by tcastudios: Render the still in parts as a picture series.
Then you can check the progress in ie PS.

One way I use is to but a Loft plane made of two
rectangular spline in front of the Camera as a matte object.
The inner spline rectangle makes a "peep hole" and moves
across the scene per frame with a small overlap and
I'm rendering with straight alpha.
This way I only have to place the result on top of
each other in PS or AE.

Cheers
Lennart


I'd have figured you'd find a way to make an expression to drive the render region option, but I assume you probably had the loft solution built prior to that feature coming out?
__________________
Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
  04 April 2013
@noseman : ok fair remark, how can i convince you?
i think i can only explain this with telling you what's happening in my line of work (archiviz for architecture competitions)

10 years a go it was normal to make 2 or 3 images for a competition
nowadays they (the architect but also the competition-organisation) demand 10 to 20 images.
a good exemple is this project http://www.bmd3d.com/bmdpages/bmdNMM.html
as you can see this is a complex project with lot's of objects and a certain level realism.
Typical for these competitions they want large images : double page A3 bookworks are a standard
plus they wanna be able to show details of those large images because they wanna explain certain elements of the design
So the images are always rendered at 5000 to 8000pixels, = rendertimes on one computer are high: 4 to 18hrs
and putting the renderings in a batch is handy when you have to do 10 images
Of course we make previews and double-check if any furniture is floating above the floor etc...
But time, deadline-stress and of course being a competition: there are last minute changes in the design etc... mistakes happen.
In every project there are images we have to re-render because i forgot to put the lights back on, etc...
(every camera has his own sun, background plane, set of lights, set of trees etc... )
Seeing the rendering progress (like with the renderbatch) helps prevent these mistakes
Also things like material ID & Object ID or re-render just a part of the image are very useful to us
Another typical error why re-render an image is AA & GI
When the 1 on 1 preview is rendering you see you should have used a higher GI or AA

People also ask me why not use the stage-object and animate the camera, of course sometimes we use this method
but most of the projects are too complex and big to start doing this kind of "stage object animations"
to many things change with every camera, it takes to much time to make the animation

Does the above explain to you why this is for archiviz work an important feature ?
i have no idea if it's useful in other area's of 3dwork but it's nothing new, it was possible with the renderbatch until R13

i don't think there many people not even maxon against a full preview in renderqueue,
the question is more how important is this for your work

Last edited by peterbmd : 04 April 2013 at 10:09 PM.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by tcastudios: Render the still in parts as a picture series.
Then you can check the progress in ie PS.

One way I use is to but a Loft plane made of two
rectangular spline in front of the Camera as a matte object.
The inner spline rectangle makes a "peep hole" and moves
across the scene per frame with a small overlap and
I'm rendering with straight alpha.
This way I only have to place the result on top of
each other in PS or AE.

Cheers
Lennart


interesting i never used this method, sounds complex but i have to test it to see how it works,
thx for the tip
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: I'd have figured you'd find a way to make an expression to drive the render region option, but I assume you probably had the loft solution built prior to that feature coming out?


Correct But both options are actually in the same set up of mine.
They are using the same parameters.
It depends on straight alpha is needed or not as well as dof.
__________________
MSA | OSX | xfiles ...Cinema4D Tools
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by tcastudios: Correct But both options are actually in the same set up of mine.
They are using the same parameters.
It depends on straight alpha is needed or not as well as dof.



i think this method is similar to what we sometimes do with vray
splitt the render in 4 or more parts
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by peterbmd: @noseman : ok fair remark, how can i convince you?
i think i can only explain this with telling you what's happening in my line of work (archiviz for architecture competitions)

i don't think there many people not even maxon against a full preview in renderqueue,
the question is more how important is this for your work


i totally understand the whole point of needing to run multiple images and the re-renders...

but if you essentially are needed to watch the render anyway - what is really different about just running them in the standard picture viewer? i mean if you are there to watch and check - what is different? and if you are not there to check and watch them - what is different about running them in the batch as it is?

the only other option would be either set up NET or use a farm where you can put up multiple images at one time and essentially run multiple images in parallel (or even tiled) and speed up the rendering of multiple images that way.

the last idea is if you need to watch images run and the picture viewer is the way to do that - what about duplicate your C4D folder and then render two images simultaneously - would be slower (but total time would be pretty much the same for two to complete as runnign them back to back) but at least you will be able to see the progress and could stop one while the other one runs etc

or run images on multiple computers in your office using picture viewer etc

yes it would probably be nice to have the old way back based on your wants - but really i just don't think there is enough justification to maxon to put it back the way it was since it seems there are multiple ways around this (unless it is a really easy thing for them to do and they can do that in some point release)

dann
__________________
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Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com
http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY, Cycles4D Render Farm
-
 
  04 April 2013
I also think the preview suggestion is valid. However....

Do you seriously need to render at full resolution, with full AA, and with AO or whatever post effects/passes you're using to get a preview? It's common practice when rendering animations to first render out a half (or less) resolution preview with geometry or no AA and other settings minimized before turning on all the bells and whistles. I do the same thing for large stills. If something looks problematic in a preview you can then use render region to render out a full view of a particular area.

That may not reveal 100% of the problems, but it should suffice to eliminate issues like lights turned off or object visibility turned off, etc.
 
  04 April 2013
The problems Peter is talking about happened me many times as well. It would be nice to have a preview of what are you rendering.
Jiri
 
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