Important petition : connection between the renderqueue and the pictureviewer

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  04 April 2013
also i don't think there is a direct correlation between use of new media and ability to communicate with customers...there are plenty of organisation with very effective customer service initiatives that aren't solely based around social media. don't be conned into believing because a companied can be liked/+1'd they care. what is interesting about maxon is they are lean and mean and so should fairly easily be able to adapt and move to the market or customer needs..we've seen that over the years with releases. what we need to see though is a culture of continuous improvement of dialogue between customer and company taking place. the genuine dialogue between both parties benefits both..but it does take investment...and that isn't always financial.
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  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by AntimatterVFX: It's amazing in an age of web 3.0 where most companies are embracing social media to engage with their customers and make it easy to receive and take action on feedback. There are dinosaurs that steadfastly refuse to be customer focussed.


There were links to the luxology site which I followed and there's a good comparison how two companies making a similar product go about things. I've spent a bit of time there over the last few evenings reading what users think of Modo/Lux.

As far as I have been able to see there's no heavy handed moderation, no threads locked I could see.
There's assistance from Luxology staff with threads notifying that questions have been answered.
There's a comprehensive known issues list available.
There's very critical members there posting on the luxology hosted forums and mature lively debate. Users being critical of luxology and modo does not appear to be a problem for Luxology.
I have also seen messages from their staff thanking users for input and going as far as to indicate the direction of development and thanking them for the feedback. Yes, thanking them.
The users appear to hold a couple of the Lux staff in very high regard.

There is a stark difference between the two companies outreach into their user base. Chalk and cheese.


I think all that interaction can be an effective marketing tool (something the Modo folks excel at), but I'm not necessarily sure that it translates to more responsiveness in terms of changes to the program. Different companies have different styles. Rhino has always had open betas and an active, company-sponsored online presence. With Adobe you might as well fart into the wind as make a suggestion ... or at least it seems that way. So on and so on. And yet they are all in the business of selling software, which depends upon their ability to provide a product that sells.

Thus, they are all doing the best they can to provide what they think their customers want. A few people seem to have the bizarre notion that Maxon is perversely plowing ahead with no concern for its users, which I think is ridiculous. Everyone thinks that he or she knows Maxon's business better than Maxon.

For example, if a developer is sooo in tune with what the users want ... has his finger so firmly planted on the pulse of the community ... why is it that he's always complaining that he can't sell more than a dozen or so copies of his software?
 
  04 April 2013
more feedback = less time on development.
everyone needs to get over the fact of how maxon does business.
i like that they keep things to them self the more info user gets told to what is coming doesnt help development.
the only person that thinks it helps them is the user and the user (including myself) knows nothing about development of C4D (even plugin developers dont know).

Maxon has choosen the way they work so get over it.
if the way it works now isnt good then why has c4d sales gone up instead of down?
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  04 April 2013
...and at the end of the day, peterbmd still doesn't have an answer as to whether his and other's specific concern will ever be addressed.


Quote:
For example, if a developer is sooo in tune with what the users want ... has his finger so firmly planted on the pulse of the community ... why is it that he's always complaining that he can't sell more than a dozen or so copies of his software?


I wish him and some of the other talented developers would move over to here.
http://www.orbolt.com/

This platform is ripe for plugins that pull the power from it's core into simplicity. Srek mentioned in another thread, http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpos...4&postcount=310, "... knocked out MoGraph that people noticed what power procedural animation realy has."

Well, you currently can't get any more procedural "powerness" than Houdini.

Last edited by eworc : 04 April 2013 at 02:21 PM. Reason: added link
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by eworc: Well, you currently can't get any more procedural "powerness" than Houdini.

As usual power comes at a price and the price you pay for the power of Houdini (i'm not talking application price here) is definitly higher than for CINEMA 4D.
Try for yourself, SideFX offers Houdini Apprentice. Personaly I found it to be very powerfull, informative, challenging and over all time consuming. It's not a tool for everyone and every ocassion, but if it fits it realy moves things.
Cheers
Björn
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  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by eworc: ...and at the end of the day, peterbmd still doesn't have an answer as to whether his and other's specific concern will ever be addressed.
I wish him and some of the other talented developers would move over to here.
http://www.orbolt.com/

This platform is ripe for plugins that pull the power from it's core into simplicity.

Well, you currently can't get any more procedural "powerness" than Houdini.

Why need Orbolt for c4d? You are wrong, it's for hou. Same market place is c4dtools.net ...
C4D is also powerful. But most of users are lazy to think.
example of procedural(i work at it for week for one animation project and of course for fun, slightly a'lot of math/geometric formulas):
 
  04 April 2013
Srek,

Oh, I agree...that's why I vocalized my wish that some of the great plugin developers that perhaps can't sustain themselves on Cinema4D alone would look in that direction for the benefit of that user base. I have Cinema 4D and Houdini Apprentice. I guess it would be debateable as to whether corporate and plugin developers could take the best of Cinema 4D into Houdini quicker than the other way around.

IIaySHP,

Quote:
Why need Orbolt for c4d? You are wrong, it's for hou. Same market place is c4dtools.net ...

That's not what I said or implied. Read the first sentence to Srek above, that should be more clear.


peterbmd,

Sorry, didn't mean to derail your thread...as we all see, you still won't get any answer to your concern ; ) EDIT: Let me re-phrase that. You got a lot of responses.

I think you want something like option #1 here:

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?opt...ewtopic&t=15603

and despite what the last paragraph states, there are significant impropmtu responses from the developers on issues that are clear and substantive. Though, again Option#1 is what I think a lot of people want.

Last edited by eworc : 04 April 2013 at 03:09 PM. Reason: context to user comment needed.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by AdamT:
For example, if a developer is sooo in tune with what the users want ... has his finger so firmly planted on the pulse of the community ... why is it that he's always complaining that he can't sell more than a dozen or so copies of his software?


I've seen many times that a developer will test the water in a forum and the bozo brigade all say great stuff, yeah I'll buy it and then when it comes to paying they're not seen for dust. It's very easy to be lead down an alley and you're never quite sure if the pulse of the community is a genuine one.

Social Funding sites are the key for developers it's better than a Poll as it tests the money where your mouth is of the community.

A forum like this would be great for ideas generation then over to the developer to do a bit of pre dev, then Kickstarter it and see if the community is willing to back it.

It's also up to the community to help market the plugin idea and descend on Twitter and Facebook to get their C4D owning mates to sign up too. It can't all be left for the developer to do the marketing as well.

I guess there may be some forum rule that might prevent such a positive thing happening.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by AdamT: For example, if a developer is sooo in tune with what the users want ... has his finger so firmly planted on the pulse of the community ... why is it that he's always complaining that he can't sell more than a dozen or so copies of his software?



maybe because most all C4D developers run their "business" so crappy.

most don't put version numbers on the plugin, the zip or a readme inside the plugin - oh a new version is out - hmmm what version do i even have? some don't even post in NET Client what their version is so you have to either just hope or download again or whatever... simply stupid when a 1k txt file inside the plugin itself can give some good information.

most don't keep mailing lists to send out emails to previous purchasers when a new version is out so nobody knows unless you spend your entire day trolling c4d forums.

most are bad at responding to emails or questions.

most are bad at just dropping the plugin cold when something else comes up like school, girlfriend, etc

upgrades - ugh... what a cluster that is trying to go thorough 30-50 or whatever number of plugins, trying to find those that disappeared, their web site is gone, they have not updated the web site (but of course the plugin works you just have to troll some forums to find out) waiting for recompiles done their friend, those that update bugs a dozen or so times in a month (hard to keep up with)

it sucks to have a hole filled by a plugin developer - even a small hole or a plugin feature that makes life simpler or better - because now maxon points that plugin as the solution so they don't fix it themselves in many cases...

plugins are the one biggest annoyance to me with C4D - some basic things that should have been fixed long ago are only not fixed because there is a plugin that can "fix" it.

oh, then there are those plugin developers that charge as much for a plugin as C4D itself and give attitude and arguments to anything and everything... yeah, hmmm, wonder why nobody wants to buy their products and become dependent on THAT person

now - this is NOT all plugin developers, some are awesome - VRAYforC4D is awesome all around, info, support, free updates (and not overwhelmingly) and best money i ever spent - and there are many less expensive or even free plugins where the developers are professional too - but sadly for C4D most are not - yet some of those still are needed for basic things that should have been fixed long ago.

unfortunately to get back to the original question - often it does seem that if the development time spent will not add a "checkbox" in a list to compare against another 3d app, it gets way lowered on priority.

geez i'm still waiting for my mac version of Cebas FinalRender2...

dann
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  04 April 2013
Quote: geez i'm still waiting for my mac version of Cebas FinalRender2...

next life. be a cat
They stopped it's development and remove all of c4d related in shop, at public forum
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by dann_stubbs: maybe because most all C4D developers run their "business" so crappy

Touched a nerve, eh?

I know it must be a huge annoyance for you, because it has been for me and I have far fewer machines and plugins to deal with. I understand the developers' viewpoint as there just isn't that much money in it for the most part. I seriously wish that Maxon would provide a plugin-only registration number that didn't change with each new version. That would eliminate so many hassles for developers and customers alike.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by AdamT: I seriously wish that Maxon would provide a plugin-only registration number that didn't change with each new version. That would eliminate so many hassles for developers and customers alike.

How? Are you think? Try to read SDK documentation, 3d party developer can to make own licensing system, without link to C4D sn.
Concept of registration links to current number of version by default.
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by IlaySHP: How? Are you think? Try to read SDK documentation, 3d party developer can to make own licensing system, without link to C4D sn.
Concept of registration links to current number of version by default.


Is that method secure, so a license couldn't be passed on to anyone?
 
  04 April 2013
Originally Posted by AdamT: Is that method secure, so a license couldn't be passed on to anyone?

Why are asking, if you know answer
 
  04 April 2013
snhook is not specifically tied to the c4d serial and for python plugins there is no
serial management at all. however the alternatives do not look more appealing to
me - mac-id or usb dongle.

the serial is meant to 'expire' on c4d updates. it is there to ensure that the customers
keep buying the plugin, not to prevent pirating. there are no 'secure' methods.
 
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