Cinema 4D vs Modo

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03 March 2013   #46
Originally Posted by ThirdEye: Are you kidding, Brian? How many sculpting apps out there were so impressive at their v1.0?


I didn't mean that C4D Sculpting was like the first version of the established ones, just that it doesn't really compare favorably to the current versions. I guess I'm biased as I feel that sculpting is a very specialized task and really it works better in a specialized app where the hotkeys, navigation, viewport, UI etc are all dedicated towards that. I don't want sculpting in something like C4D or Maya, it seems like using an aircraft carrier to drive to the shops.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03 March 2013   #47
Originally Posted by Horganovski: I didn't mean that C4D Sculpting was like the first version of the established ones, just that it doesn't really compare favorably to the current versions. I guess I'm biased as I feel that sculpting is a very specialized task and really it works better in a specialized app where the hotkeys, navigation, viewport, UI etc are all dedicated towards that. I don't want sculpting in something like C4D or Maya, it seems like using an aircraft carrier to drive to the shops.

Cheers,
Brian


I agree, and have always thought that this was something that should be left to specialist applications. IMO if someone is interested in sculpting he or she will invest in ZBrush, which honestly is miles more advanced than R14's system. People who aren't that into it probably won't even delve into Cinema's system. Most of the C4D folks I work with do only the most rudimentary modeling. They buy assets or hire someone like me to create them. If I get something that calls for sculpting I use ZBrush.

As far as Modo vs. C4D, I wouldn't trade MoGraph for anything I've seen in Modo.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #48
Originally Posted by AdamT: Most of the C4D folks I work with do only the most rudimentary modeling. They buy assets or hire someone like me to create them.


Same for me, most of my C4D clients send me purchased models to rig/animate, sometimes I have to do clean up on them for those purposes so I use ZBrush or Topogun to do that. For the amount of time those two apps save me for that kind of task they paid for themselves very quickly. A very common issue is that UV maps get broken when the topology of a model needs to be changed for rigging and again ZB or TG are a life saver in that situation as you can transfer textures to a model with different topology/UVs.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03 March 2013   #49
Re sculpting:

Perhaps. Buy if someone with cinema needs to just do some sculpting for a product shot or something simple do you think they would rather pick it up in cinema or zbrushes backwards ass interface? Power or not its enough to deter people. Im not a modeller or sculptor bit ive made much more progress in cinema in than i have in years of trying casually to learn zbrush.

Cinemas is actually pretty darn good for a v1. Better than most others as alberto said.
__________________
www.bretbays.com
"We do not - not wag our genitals at one another to make a point!"
 
Old 03 March 2013   #50
Originally Posted by xfon5168: ...if someone with cinema needs to just do some sculpting for a product shot or something simple do you think they would rather pick it up in cinema or zbrushes backwards ass interface? Power or not its enough to deter people. Im not a modeller or sculptor bit ive made much more progress in cinema in than i have in years of trying casually to learn zbrush.


That's a fair point, hopefully there are people talking advantage of it that way. For me though it wouldn't hurt if Maxon took a wider view beyond customers solely using Cinema with no other tools as I'm sure it's not often used in complete isolation.
Yes I was delighted with Alembic in R14 (a much bigger feature for me than sculpting in terms of new possibilities as I already had ZB) and yes it's cool that C4D plays nice with Photoshop and AE (and whatever the current hyped partnership with Adobe might bring) but the FBX importer still seems to be broken every other version and how about they looked at the people using things like ZBrush and Mudbox with Cinema and said 'ok we'll fix the OBJ importer so that it finally reads material files, or we'll support import of vertex colors like Topogun does'.

As for ZBrush interface, that's really just a meme to me. One weekend and some good tutorials and I think anyone can pick it up, you just have to be a little stubborn at the beginning and accept that it's it's own thing and doesn't work like other programs. Once you get used to working with it you realize that that's exactly what's so great about it.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03 March 2013   #51
about the c4d sculpting discussion - personally i was hoping that they had implemented it
as an extended feature of bodypaint and took with it a first step towards bodypaint 5.0
with it as a truly unified sculpting and painting approach. however, looking at the SDK you
cannot really prove that point, the sculpting classes do have almost nothing to do with
the bodypaint classes and and there also no sign of a new unifying super class for both of
them. but hope is the last thing to die, right ? i never understood why maxon did let their
leadership in 3d painting go.

Last edited by littledevil : 03 March 2013 at 07:09 AM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #52
Originally Posted by xfon5168: Re sculpting:
Cinemas is actually pretty darn good for a v1. Better than most others as alberto said.


They've had years to copy the best parts from others and in the same time invent their own thing, and this is what they came up? Was this sculpting introduced back in R11, it would've been revolutionary, now it's just another traditional Maxon tool: Looks sharp as any other knife but closer inspection reveals it is made of aluminium. (Personally I'm happy with it as I only use sculpt to finish up things, and going to a 3rd party software is always bit nuisance. Power users definitely find it limited).

Originally Posted by AdsovonMelk: ...I hope someone from Maxon is reading this thread and will encourage team to show something jaw dropping in next release.


Nonono, personally I've had it with them Maxon jaw-droppers: They invent a cool new feature that is half-finished and never bother to polish the said feature. Maxon's jaw-droppers are there to lure new users and to give a brief stiffy to existing users. They're no power tools, they exist solely because it looks wealthy in the feature list. And that's exactly Maxon's weakest point, Imo.

At the moment we have a long que of features that desperately need updating since v9 and yet Maxon's idea is to leave them as they are and create whole new features. I don't mind new toys but quite frankly it pisses me off to be forced to pay for Pyrocluster-from-the-90's once or twice a year, I rather see it dropped from the package if it dropped the frikkin' price tag even by 100€. Cloth is all nice because I need to render flags in wind on daily basis </sarcam> but it's mostly useless in any sort of CA because it's not a finished feature. It had endless possibilities but Maxon thought it was OK to leave it as it is because it looks cool in the feature list. Still it's useless and waste of my money. Some features already grow spider web on them, and yet we see jaw-droppers instead of taking the existing tools to a new level.

If Maxon's idea is to look bloated feature-wise, so be it but it's the wrong way. I much rather work with one sharp axe than with five dull ones.

They've had almost a decade to think of heir to TP, and when it is introduced in R15, it will make Houdini look like a wet carrot. Heh, wishful thinking: TP will remain useful only to those who make extra by making tutorials.

I'm a loyal customer but it feels like something has happened inside Maxon HQ in the last few years. It's like in Hitchiker's Guide when new management came in to take charge of the book - things went south pretty fast. Modo looks fresh mainly because they're still hungry, C4D's already bloated with junk food. Instead of more hamburgers, I would go with strict less-is-more -diet.

Either get rid of the ancient/unfinished features and drop the price or actually finally polish them. Just because Atdsk finds it necessary to screw things up doesn't mean Maxon has to follow their lead.
__________________
Crazy people make better CG

Last edited by Hilt : 03 March 2013 at 08:05 AM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #53
Originally Posted by Navstar: I would be really really surprised if Maxon isn't paying attention. Now the only question is: when is the next version of C4D coming out??


I would be surprised if Maxon were paying attention at all. They have ignored very vocal requests for years and must simply throw darts at a dartboard in the office to see what 'new feature' they can implement when hardly any users ask for it. The only comparison you can make between Max, Maya and C4D is the price.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #54
I find I am using both C4D and Modo in tandem at the moment. That's partly because I know C4D better but there are things I can do in C4D that are easier and vice versa. So I see the 2 programs co existing for me at least. The main reason I love modo is the interactive preview and the material system, which I used to hate but which now has a lot to like. I feel 701 is an update that addresses many of the short falls of 601 in terms of performance as has been discussed which is why it seems a little lack lustre to me. Don't get me wrong there are some really exciting things but as far as animation is concerned I'd still fall back to C4D, as I just feel more at home there.

Camera animation for instance in Modo is old school nested nulls, no fancy morphing cams there. But I have been able to export animation from C4D into Modo via fbx and so I could easily see this as a workflow.

What I will say about pricing is, we make a living from this 12 months of the year, so I don't think the prices are particularly over the top.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #55
Maxons fundimental problem is that they are no longer hungry.

As long as you all keep paying for the same regergited 'old sh*t' and facelifts, don't be suprised when Maxon give it to you again next year, whiped over with a wet cloth, whilst spoon feeding you whatever they see fit.They have got you by the balls with the MSA and they know it.


>I would be surprised if Maxon were paying attention at all.
they are not, do not.
>They have ignored very vocal requests for years and must simply throw darts at a dartboard >in the office to see what 'new feature' they can implement
>when hardly any users ask for it.
confirmed.

Last edited by tapaul : 03 March 2013 at 10:03 AM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #56
Quote: I don't mind new toys but quite frankly it pisses me off to be forced to pay for Pyrocluster-from-the-90's once or twice a year, I rather see it dropped from the package if it dropped the frikkin' price tag even by 100€.


I really dont get why you keep bringing up pyro and claim it costs you loads of money? Why would dropping an existing feature save you money? You realise Maxon dont pay anyone any royalties for it right? they own the code outright. Having pyrocluster in c4d costs you nothing.

Quote: They've had almost a decade to think of heir to TP


Agreed

Quote: Modo looks fresh mainly because they're still hungry, C4D's already bloated with junk food. Instead of more hamburgers, I would go with strict less-is-more -diet.


Agreed to an extent, but do you know how much hell will be unleashed when seemingly useless old tat gets removed but someone was using it somewhere?
__________________
Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com
 
Old 03 March 2013   #57
Originally Posted by tapaul: Maxons fundimental problem is that they are no longer hungry.

As long as you all keep paying for the same regergited 'old sh*t' and facelifts, don't be suprised when Maxon give it to you again next year, whiped over with a wet cloth, whilst spoon feeding you whatever they see fit.They have got you by the balls with the MSA and they know it.


>I would be surprised if Maxon were paying attention at all.
they are not, do not.
>They have ignored very vocal requests for years and must simply throw darts at a dartboard >in the office to see what 'new feature' they can implement
>when hardly any users ask for it.
confirmed.


Over a year ago I was run out of this forum for being critical of Maxon with my posts being flagged as inappropriate which were far less critical than the posts on this thread. How times have changed...

I was signed up for the MSA so I received R13. R13 will be the last version of C4D I buy unless there is a massive difference to Maxon upgrade policy and value for money. Like Tapaul I doubt things will change.

I was attracted to C4D for its Mograph tools which are great but where's the development? Particles, viewport, xpresso, textures, bodypaint and the biggest joke pyroclusterf**k all need to be brought up to date but based on the tightfisted updates that's several years worth of upgrades even if they're interested and they appear not to be. So...

We made a decision to look elsewhere and now have a range of 3d apps and helper apps as we continue to transition away from C4D. The ridiculous thing is as C4D license holders it will be cheaper for us to buy Modo full than upgrading to R15 from R13. After R15 I'd have to buy a full C4D again which will never happen. Self defeating policies and allowing other apps to catch up and overtake in the important areas are going to catch up with Maxon just like it did with Newtek. It's not a question of when it's happening now.

I'm not saying Modo 701 is the answer to everything or everybody but their rate of development is impressive and their link to Foundry Mari and Nuke offers far more potential than C4D and AE IMO. Modo is getting more impressive each year while unfortunately C4D is getting less so by comparison.

I wonder how long this thread will stay open?

Last edited by AntimatterVFX : 03 March 2013 at 10:54 AM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #58
Originally Posted by AntimatterVFX: Over a year ago I was run out of this forum for being critical of Maxon with my posts being flagged as inappropriate which were far less critical than the posts on this thread. How times have changed...

I was signed up for the MSA so I received R13. R13 will be the last version of C4D I buy unless there is a massive difference to Maxon upgrade policy and value for money. Like Tapaul I doubt things will change.

I was attracted to C4D for its Mograph tools which are great but where's the development? Particles, viewport, xpresso, textures, bodypaint and the biggest joke pyroclusterf**k all need to be brought up to date but based on the tightfisted updates that's several years worth of upgrades even if they're interested and they appear not to be. So...

We made a decision to look elsewhere and now have a range of 3d apps and helper apps as we continue to transition away from C4D. The ridiculous thing is as C4D license holders it will be cheaper for us to buy Modo full than upgrading to R15 from R13. After R15 I'd have to buy a full C4D again which will never happen. Self defeating policies and allowing other apps to catch up and overtake in the important areas are going to catch up with Maxon just like it did with Newtek. It's not a question of when it's happening now.

I'm not saying Modo 701 is the answer to everything or everybody but their rate of development is impressive and their link to Foundry Mari and Nuke offers far more potential than C4D and AE IMO. Modo is getting more impressive each year while unfortunately C4D is getting less so by comparison.

I wonder how long this thread will stay open?



even if i agree with some of your words, i have to ask you:
when you are a houdini master (as it says in your signature), why do you complain about cinema? no beef intended, just real personal interest
fuat
__________________
insekt8.de
 
Old 03 March 2013   #59
Originally Posted by fuat: even if i agree with some of your words, i have to ask you:
when you are a houdini master (as it says in your signature), why do you complain about cinema? no beef intended, just real personal interest
fuat


I'm our studio's Houdini most experienced user (note I did not say expert). I have personally owned C4D from R11 but used it since R10. Our studio started on C4D because it was the do everything app but had to look elsewhere to keep up in key areas that have been allowed to stagnate and fall behind.

I use a huge list VFX software that I could place in my Sig. I can remove my sig if that makes you feel better about my critique C4D? We as a studio have 6 seats of C4D with many plugins etc etc so we've put money where our mouths are over the years and entitled to an opinion on value for money of Maxon software.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #60
Originally Posted by Horganovski: I didn't mean that C4D Sculpting was like the first version of the established ones, just that it doesn't really compare favorably to the current versions.


So basically if you were a Modo user you'd complain Modo 101 wasn't on par with Maya? Or if MAXON wanted to introduce say an internal compositor you'd expect it to be on par with Nuke?
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.