CGTalk > Software Specific Forums > Maxon Cinema 4D
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-17-2013, 10:13 PM   #16
fabianR
Frequenter
 
fabianR's Avatar
CGSociety Member
Fabian Rosenkranz
Animator / Illustrator
www.studio-fabian.de
Berlin, Germany
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffouille
I missed that. Indeed, that's true. I guess the best way to get a similar behavior is to use the selection object and restrict auto-keyframing to that selection.


That's pretty much my regular workflow, but still things like Sketch and Toon in the render settings or materials or anything you touch at all gets keyed. I wish there was a way to really restrict the auto keying to the selected selection object, ignoring anything else. That would make me pretty happy already.
 
Old 03-18-2013, 07:25 AM   #17
LucentDreams
lover of gophers
 
LucentDreams's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Kai Pedersen
Lighting TD
Double Negative
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobo
The developers at Maxon are senseless robots me thinks. They deem these things already working, so they never touch them. They'de rather pour precious R&D time and resources to sculpting and such. Well, what's working for them, doesn't necessarily mean that they are there to help the user, unfortunately as of now, it's just the opposite. When you loose time with petty annoyances while trying to meet a deadline, seconds lost add up to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days... I just hope to god that they'll change that mentality soon enough... :(

Cheers;

AJ



I'd suggest if you plan on making money and your facing deadlines, that if you want a fall guy for issues on a project, software developers can only be to blame if the software is crashing, otherwise, its either your lack of knowledge of the app, or a poor choice in apps to use for the challenge at hand.

Keep in mind software packages are designed for many needs, some more than others, and what you think is a good workflow, obviously isn't bad if it is an option, but may not be what their focused markets want as a default. If the software acted as you think it should, then consider how any user coming from Maxon's larger user base, motion graphics, and softwares like after effect would react. That's not how AE's timeline works.
__________________
Quote:
"Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 03-18-2013, 01:41 PM   #18
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucentDreams
That's not how AE's timeline works.


Yes, Autokey mode in AE is similar to C4D in some ways. It could be argued though that AE is more flexible in some ways regarding auto-adding keyframes, in that if you have Autokey off but you change a value on an already keyed attribute then that attribute still gets a new key added at whatever frame you made that change, which is pretty similar to how auto key works in some of the other 3d apps. At the same time if you then change say the opacity or effect setting on another layer which hasn't been previously animated then no new keys get set on that attribute, that seems a better workflow to me than having Autokey on, at least it's the way I prefer to work in AE anyway.
Currently there's no way to do this in Cinema unless you constantly switch Autokey mode on and off every time you want to change something like a camera position, material setting etc. without it getting keyed. I would have thought restricting Autokeying to a selection object would prevent this but it doesn't.

I feel the lead is getting buried here though - the OPs point was that auto loading the selected objects in the timeline is a pretty standard function and should very likely be the default, and an experienced trainer here didn't know how to get the behavior either. Surely that does bear out the point that it's not intuitive in Cinema and could be changed for the better. Personally I have the options I need to switch built into my timeline layout as icons for 'fast' access. I still find myself toggling them all in turn sometimes to get the behavior (autoloading) that I want.

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 03-18-2013 at 01:56 PM.
 
Old 03-18-2013, 02:17 PM   #19
fluffouille
Booh
 
fluffouille's Avatar
Sébastien Florand
Fluffy4D
Durham, USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,667
Only Link View to Object Manager should be made a default. Automatic mode being activated by default is the current behavior, no?

Anyways, we've made new suggestions both for a better autokeyframing behavior and timeline defaults. We'll see what comes of it.
__________________
One on one Online Instructor for Cinema4D | Visit www.Fluffy4D.com for more info.
 
Old 03-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #20
demafleez
Frequenter
 
demafleez's Avatar
fleezinator
USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 123
Autokey/OM linking defaults aside, I'd love to see zoom to cursor enabled in the timeline. Maxon's spoiled me with that in the viewport.
__________________
••••••••••••••••••••••••

demafleez.com | twitter
 
Old 03-18-2013, 05:39 PM   #21
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by demafleez
I'd love to see zoom to cursor enabled in the timeline.


It's going to sound like a minor point, but I wish the Frame selected command was a little bit more clever in the curve editor timeline, in that if you have no key selected it would frame the entire curve instead of having to reach across the keyboard to a different hotkey (H). Since I have my thumb on Alt usually for navigation that H key is just a little too much of a stretch to be comfortable, plus I usually have to look down to see that I'm pressing it instead of G which will jump to a new key if I press it. In the other app I animate in F will frame selected keys if there are any selected or the entire curve if not. A tiny difference but those little things can really add up when you spend hours a day animating.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03-18-2013, 10:16 PM   #22
xfon5168
Jack of All Trades
Bret Bays
Character TD
USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,138
Send a message via AIM to xfon5168
See, maybe I'm weird, but I've never used autokeying. I suppose it could be because of it's odd behavior, but a series of canadians and animator mentors have drilled into me to key everything on each frame, which lead to the selection object workflow and never touching autokeying.

As such, I only want Link TL/OM on in F-Curve mode and never on in key mode. I find I would rather see everything in the summary tracks and more and retime there. So limiting what I see is bad. However, in F-Curve mode, that's a very finite granular type of editing where I only care about the object im animating, so in those cases I DO want it on.

So I'd like it to work in one or both modes, but only in F-Curve by default.
__________________
www.bretbays.com
"We do not - not wag our genitals at one another to make a point!"
 
Old 03-18-2013, 10:46 PM   #23
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,833
I guess for me my workflow is constantly evolving, it even changes depending on the kind of shot. For an acting shot I tend to start in step and I'd key the entire rig on each pose indeed, even with that though I still use auto key. Each time I get to a new pose I key the entire rig first, then I start tweaking and with auto key on I know that the keys will get updated as I do that, I can flip to the previous and next poses and not have to worry about keying all the time.

For a more body mechanics style shot though I tend to work in a more layered fashion and I go to linear/spline a lot earlier. Sometimes I'll just key the pelvis and feet first, then go back and work out the torso, neck/head and finally the arms since I'm trying to figure out where the forces are coming from and where they are headed. I'm just not good enough yet to see the entire picture when it comes to complex moves yet.

Really I don't think there's one 'right' way to animate. I've seen guys like Jason Ryan (Dreamworks) who work almost entirely in the viewport and hardly ever touch the graph editor/dopesheet and then I've seen guys like Cyrus McWilliams (a creature animation lead at Blur) who gave a live lecture yesterday who works with a minimum of keys and instead does a lot of tangent manipulation to get the eases and overshoots he's looking for.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03-19-2013, 02:53 AM   #24
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,833
Had to repost this while still thinking about layered animation workflow, saw it earlier this evening, just amazing work. I can't imagine anyone could do this with a pose to pose method, or at least if they did it would take much much longer to get it this fluid and 'hide' the poses. I guess the fact that you can't see the poses is the main difference between stuff like this and the cartoony pose-snap-pose style of studios like Pixar/Disney/Dreamworks/Bluesky etc. Personally I think both styles are amazing to watch when done well, in different ways of course.

https://vimeo.com/61563496

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 03-19-2013 at 02:59 AM.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #25
Jacobo
Know-it-All
 
Jacobo's Avatar
portfolio
Ajlan Altug
3D Animator_Generalist
n/a
Turkey
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffouille
You guys need to RTFM and learn how to use the keyframe selections.
Right-click any parameter and add to the keyframe selection. Once done, only the parameters that have been added to the selection will be keyframed.


I'm sorry fluffouille, but it seems I couldn't make myself clear enough in my posts. But I'll go over it again;

1- The whole keyframe selection thing is a time consuming load of crap, whether you RTFM or not... And, you can NOT make all the parameters non-keyframeable btw, it has to be one except the others. This is NOT a "Maya is better" thing. The USFAA sets aviation standards and the world follows suit despite the fact that other countries have their own aviation agencies, this does not necessarily mean that FAA rules and good ol' US knows better than everyone else, it's because it's all about safety, period... Workflow is everything and if Maya has a proven and streamlined one already in place, there should be no shame in others choosing to adopt it, like C4D.

2- When one is animating, he/she will want to adjust certain params just for the sake of tweaking stuff, not necessarily to animate them. C4D assumes that once the user is in auto-keyframe mode, he/she is gonna animate every god damn thing he/she clicks on. Instead of having to deal with adding maybe hundreds of params to keyframe selections, wrestling with turning on and off the auto keyframe button on and on and on throughout the course of a session, there's just one thing, just one danged thing that can solve everything; having an option in animation prefs that'll set the auto-keyframe mode so that only the params/channels that have been keyframed or have an fcurve attached to that will get key framed. Simple and clean...

I'm not trying to oppose you or diss C4D in anyway. But unfortunately, Maxon is quite blindly conservative when it comes to listening to its customers' wishes. One version has to be dedicated to overhauling workflow in every field in this great software. Prioritizing sculpting enhancements into the modeling pipe, where on the other hand the standard user can't even do a decent bevel and has to look around for a plugin to get it done, is by all standards, ludicrous... The same thing goes for animation, sorry...

Cheers;

AJ
__________________
consumpta est...

Last edited by Jacobo : 03-21-2013 at 02:09 PM.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #26
fluffouille
Booh
 
fluffouille's Avatar
Sébastien Florand
Fluffy4D
Durham, USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,667
I you read my follow-up messages, you'll see we have requested changes to autokeyframing that go in the direction you are looking for (autokeyframe on parameters that have a track or keyframe already + several suggestions to the way the Selection object and keyframe selections work), so I understood what you where after and agree that it would be beneficial.

Now in terms of workflow in general, C4D has a much better one overall, even if a few areas could use some tweaking (like the timeline). So please no, don't copy other application for everything.

On a side note: Maxon does listen to user feedback, don't hesitate to suggest away.

Cheers.
__________________
One on one Online Instructor for Cinema4D | Visit www.Fluffy4D.com for more info.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 02:29 PM   #27
Jacobo
Know-it-All
 
Jacobo's Avatar
portfolio
Ajlan Altug
3D Animator_Generalist
n/a
Turkey
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffouille
I you read my follow-up messages, you'll see we have requested changes to autokeyframing that go in the direction you are looking for (autokeyframe on parameters that have a track or keyframe already + several suggestions to the way the Selection object and keyframe selections work), so I understood what you where after and agree that it would be beneficial.

Now in terms of workflow in general, C4D has a much better one overall, even if a few areas could use some tweaking (like the timeline). So please no, don't copy other application for everything.

On a side note: Maxon does listen to user feedback, don't hesitate to suggest away.

Cheers.


I won't hesitate. I'm in the process of writing a letter in which I'm hoping to be able to convey my point of view on all this to Maxon. I do hope they'll take it into consideration for this release (this'll be the second time tho :( )

Take care;

AJ
__________________
consumpta est...
 
Old 03-21-2013, 03:09 PM   #28
fluffouille
Booh
 
fluffouille's Avatar
Sébastien Florand
Fluffy4D
Durham, USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,667
Too late for this release, things like these take time to implement and the dev in charge of that area needs to be available for that release cycle.
Send anyway, the more people ask for the same features, the better the chance of it being implemented!
__________________
One on one Online Instructor for Cinema4D | Visit www.Fluffy4D.com for more info.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 03:09 PM   #29
CGTalk Moderation
Lord of the posts
CGTalk Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,066,481
Thread automatically closed

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
__________________
CGTalk Policy/Legalities
Note that as CGTalk Members, you agree to the terms and conditions of using this website.
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.