SSS not recognizing vertex map shader?

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  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by ferdinand-h: i think he refers to the fact that R13 SSS only provided a cached SSS solution, which could
lead to some rendering problems, as the SSS would always be created globally at render time.
In r14 there is the direct mode which kind of solves this problem (at the price of rendertime).

Plus he obviously loves ranting about everything.


Lol, why is criticism always misunderstood as ranting

The direct mode is still new and erroneous.
 
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by Mr.Tyler Durden: Lol, why is criticism always misunderstood as ranting

The direct mode is still new and erroneous.


Criticism without exact description of what is beeing critizised is indistinguishable from ranting.
"New" is not not a bad thing per se, "erroneous" isn't helping at all in understanding what is not working.
Don't be surprised if your posts are misunderstood.

Cheers
Björn
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The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
  03 March 2013
I see your point. Well its been worked on so looking forward to the fix/update
 
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by Srek: Criticism without exact description of what is beeing critizised is indistinguishable from ranting.
"New" is not not a bad thing per se, "erroneous" isn't helping at all in understanding what is not working.
Don't be surprised if your posts are misunderstood.

Cheers
Björn


Why didn't you ask him why he would say that ?

regards
Paul Everett

Last edited by tapaul : 03 March 2013 at 12:53 PM.
 
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by tapaul: Why didn't you ask him why he would say that ?

I did not want to hijack this thread. He knows how to get in contact with Maxon or me.
__________________
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The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by Srek: I did not want to hijack this thread. He knows how to get in contact with Maxon or me.

I wouldnt call that hijacking, it would still have been perfectly on topic and relative to the thread. Where as calling is perfectly valid critique a rant , is basically an insult.Are you aware of that?

I am now convinced that nobody at Maxon actually knows the meaning of the word rant as is being used to the point of obsession in a completely wrong context.

kindly allow me to link yourself (and everyone at maxon) to the definition of the word rant....

when you cant distinguish critique from rant, that is a problem.

regards
Paul Everett

Last edited by tapaul : 03 March 2013 at 01:39 PM.
 
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by tapaul: I wouldnt call that hijacking, it would still have been perfectly on topic and relative to the thread. Where as calling is perfectly valid critique a rant , is basically an insult.Are you aware of that?

I am now convinced that nobody at Maxon actually knows the meaning of the word rant as is being used to the point of obsession in a completely wrong context.

kindly allow me to link yourself (and everyone at maxon) to the definition of the word rant....

when you cant distinguish critique from rant, that is a problem.

regards
Paul Everett


Sine i'm not a native english speaker the precise meaning of rant did escape me, i stand corrected.
Thanks
Björn
__________________
- www.bonkers.de -
The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
  03 March 2013
Semantics aside, I think there are broadly speaking two different kinds of critiques :

1 - a broad statement with little information attached to it to back it up.
2 - specific information that describes an issue.

Having been a beta tester for a couple of years I have a very clear idea of which one gets results. Simply put, specifics are what make a difference. Yes getting to those specifics takes more time and effort, but it's more beneficial to everyone in the long run IMO.

I'm not just referring to this topic/poster here BTW, the first kind of critique is something you see on lots of other forums on CGTalk too, it gets tiring reading this kind of comment though as it really benefits no one.

Cheers,
Brian
 
  03 March 2013
Not a rant

OK, now you guys ARE hijacking the thread with all this rant rant.

Back to SSS for a moment...

I do not have R14. I purchased R13 mainly for the then "new" SSS and the physical render. I see from Joel's post that there are some settings/features of SSS in R14 that are not in R13.
Can someone tell me about single vs. multiple, and cached vs. whatever.

Thanks.
Jeremy(no stranger to rants)W

Last edited by JeremyW : 03 March 2013 at 03:27 PM.
 
  03 March 2013
For the record, (and in the most well meaning way as opposed to encouraging the usual thread apocalypse) I wouldn't mind discussing any perceived issues with SSS, if it could mean we all could benefit from optimization workflows.

For me, as mentioned above, it comes down to time vs quality. SSS looks great, but if it takes an hour to calculate the cache then thats not useful. Direct mode is a great addition to the shader, but as also mentioned, comes at the cost of time and grain. And of course there are different results depending on whether you are using standard or physical renderer (again mostly time/quality issues). This is why its good that there are 3rd party solutions to lean on. At times, I may have native SSS, translucent pro and VREEL skin all used on different objects within the same scene as this might provide the most efficient speed without loss of quality.

Always looking for ways to optimize.

I dont have much experience with other software so dont know what the caveats/strengths are compared to other tools when it comes to SSS. I have been learning VRAY but still quite a newb atm. I havent really studied the differences.

As for my original post--I have put the issue aside for the moment until I get back to that part of the job---have moved on for the moment but will return.
 
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by JeremyW: OK, now you guys ARE hijacking the tread with all this rant rant.

Back to SSS for a moment...

I do not have R14. I purchased R13 mainly for the then "new" SSS and the physical render. I see from Joel's post that there are some settings/features of SSS in R14 that are not in R13.
Can someone tell me about single vs. multiple, and cached vs. whatever.

Thanks.
Jeremy(no stranger to rants)W


Hi Jeremy

in R14 we have 2 modes, Cache (which is in 13) and Direct (added in 14)

The cache mode can sometimes take quite awhile to calculate prior to rendering--especially if there are many very small objects or overlapping objects.

Direct mode solves this by "brute force" rendering (for lack of a better term) immediately without calculating first. So you eliminate that initial calculation step, but it comes at the cost of render time (depending on how well you've optimized) and sometimes grain. there is a nice feature Patrick Goski pointed out to me recently---if you click separate color channels you can get very rich color in direct mode.

The other biggie added was the single scatter mode. clicking this allows light and shadow to penetrate objects so you get internal shadows. This way you can have (in your case) a cell with a nucleus/organelles within, and though not visible beneath the surface, you can see the the light /dark fluctuations under the surface so you can see somethings in there. You can also light an object from within this way.
 
  03 March 2013
Direct mode "Minimum Threshold"?

Thanks Joel and everyone, this is some valuable information.

Sorry I'm a little late to this thread. I am currently working on a logo animation for our company's demo reel. The scene is very complex with cached soft bodys, hair, Mosplines sweeps, clones, atom arrays, and SSS on almost everything. Using one light in the scene that affects the main objects with SSS, area shadow, falloff. SSS path length about 8.8. Objects about 17.5 units thick, though the hair and clones are much thinned. Using Physical Renderer. Trying to optimize for NET Render.

I was getting some major flickering issues and couldn't figure out what was wrong. I tried all the settings under Cache mode including smoothing, threshold, and also tried increasing the global SSS sampling. Nothing seemed to work. Then I tried Direct mode and everything rendered fine. I did notice some graininess like Joel mentioned.

Is there any way to reduce the graininess using the "minimum threshold"? The Help menu blurb is a little confusing to me for some reason.
 
  03 March 2013
Ok nevermind sorry. I just read that the Subsurface Scattering Subdivision in the Physical Render Settings will reduce the graininess on Direct mode.
 
  03 March 2013
Just a note--I have noticed that if you have more than one shader applied to an object, each with SSS, the topmost (right-most) SSS material will multiply/mix with the layer below. i think this is what was contributing to my original problem above.
 
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