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Old 01-22-2013, 07:51 PM   #1
JoelDubin
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Rendering hair with particles/tracer just plain buggy in R14

Posted about this before. When using the hair shader to render particles, getting results in the picture viewer was a buggy ordeal.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...?f=47&t=1089054

Last time I hit a wall, David O'Reilly's pCache fixed the problem.

Now I am doing something similar, only rather then rendering particles I am trying to use the hair shader to render tracer splines generated by a cloner that is targeting a moving object.

Frames render fine in the Editor window. Hair render is turned on in the render settings. But nothing shows up in the picture viewer. Switching from phys renderer to standard renderer didnt change anything.

I tried switching the Hair Render settings to "ray traced" and that WORKED!!
The first time, that is.
Then trying to render it out again, there is no image in the picture viewer. Can't seem to figure out how to get this to work consistently. Anyone else having problems rendering hair with the tracer?
 
Old 01-22-2013, 07:55 PM   #2
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screenshots of my settings. Top image is what I want--and what I get in the editor window.
Thanks





 
Old 01-22-2013, 08:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelOtron
Last time I hit a wall, David O'Reilly's pCache fixed the problem.

pCache can also do something like tracer, might help. Either way, if you want to e-mail me at my support address I'll take a look at your scene and let you know exactly what is going on and how (hopefully) to solve it. Would also be curious to see your other scene to see why hair wasn't rendering TP correctly, it should.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:18 PM   #4
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Thanks David. I have rendered with hair many times in the past without problem. Confused as to why I am suddenly having problems. Could very well be something I'm overlooking. I'll send something off a bit later, as I've moved on for now as the clocks ticking--but would like to get to the bottom of it.
 
Old 01-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #5
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does adding a hair render tag to the tracer help ?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caraffi
does adding a hair render tag to the tracer help ?


Thanks William--tried that--- that does not help.
 
Old 01-22-2013, 09:51 PM   #7
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I've been doing some heavy particle work in the past few days and have experienced some inconsistencies while using hair as a particle renderer - With both regular particles and the tracer. My issue with the tracer seems more to do with the tracer behavior than the actual hair itself, with weird jumps in frames that weren't expected, or the renderer suddenly producing no result for the hair at all. We desperately need a tracer cache of some sort.

I don't want to turn this into a complaints thread, but I think we're long overdue a better solution to this very old problem. Every five minutes I'm running into a brick wall, with limitation after limitation. Hair can't have physical DOF or motion blur, StormTracer has dof but no motion blur. We need a practical feature that simply renders individual particles as dots, something that can receive shading information from various channels representing the variety of data produced by the particles.. And most importantly, a system that works with gi/mb/dof/lights.

PShade is definitely on the right track. @obeardy, program a point render mode not based on hair and I'll gladly pay you whatever you charge. I can say with certainty, there's absolutely a demand for this workflow.
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Last edited by ThePriest : 01-22-2013 at 09:59 PM.
 
Old 01-22-2013, 09:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest
We desperately need a tracer cache of some sort.

pCache is cached and has tracing for points and particles. There are some examples on my site or email me if you need any help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest
PShade is definitely on the right track. @obeardy, program a point render mode not based on hair and I'll gladly pay you whatever you charge. I can say with certainty, there's absolutely a demand for this workflow.

pShade is actually intended/designed for geometry, the hair support was an addition. pShade is a shader for objects to use particle properties, it was just expanded to allow hair to use the pShade shader (and any CINEMA shader), which hair can't normally do.

The problems with the physical render are more the engine itself than any plugin. Physical has hair rendering (hair doesn't do the rendering in physical, the physical render engine does), sadly it doesn't support hair plugins otherwise pShade would already work with it.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:21 PM   #9
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Interesting. On closer inspection this PCache tool is more powerful than I originally realized. I hadn't noticed that you could directly render the points from the plugin.

Would still love for you to consider developing this further and to see a new way of handling this information that's compatible with the latest features.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Joel.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:00 PM   #10
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There is still sketch and toon, Realflow Renderkit and Krakatoa to render particles as well.. all non-dependent on that old hair trick..
Actually, add Maxwell Render via Particle Extension, Mograph and of course the RealFlow plugin itself which can also generate instances at rendertime..

Last edited by Mr.Tyler Durden : 01-23-2013 at 12:43 AM.
 
Old 01-22-2013, 11:06 PM   #11
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Krakatoa for C4D? Surely not.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest
Krakatoa for C4D? Surely not.




Yeah of course not... lol

:P

Last edited by Mr.Tyler Durden : 01-23-2013 at 08:14 PM.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 02:42 AM   #13
JoelDubin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest
Interesting. On closer inspection this PCache tool is more powerful than I originally realized. I hadn't noticed that you could directly render the points from the plugin.

Would still love for you to consider developing this further and to see a new way of handling this information that's compatible with the latest features.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Joel.



Dont see it as a hijack at all--- this is all very interesting--enjoy the conversation.

Get pCache. its fantastic. I too thought it was just a one trick pony but (as you discovered) it provides fast "geometry-less" rendering options as well as retiming.

Of course theres been Mograph and TPartio for TP baking, but this one is the most versatile.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 10:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest
I've been doing some heavy particle work


in the way of amount??

I wouldn't consider C4Ds limit of 10 million particles max "heavy".. although its hard to handle that amount at all already..
 
Old 01-23-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
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It's definitely low for what the industry considers heavy particle work. But as you say, in Cinema 4D, that's the absolute limit. It's sad that this goes ignored year after year and I'm convinced it will continue to be this way for at least a few more releases. I'm interested in this kind of work and think that Houdini might be my next stop.
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