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Old 11-13-2012, 11:51 AM   #1
lomvuho
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Library of poses.

Is it possible to create a library of poses, like a Storm V3?
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #2
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Short answer, no, there's no direct equivalent of Storm V3 or PoseMan etc in Cinema. There is a plugin 'CD Joints and Skin' that does give some pose storage/recall functions, you can see it in use in my face rig demo here.https://vimeo.com/7001615

Alternatively you can just use the old-school method of storing poses in negative frames.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomvuho
Is it possible to create a library of poses, like a Storm V3?


Yes. Create a PoseMorph tag on your root object. Enable Position, Rotation and Hierarchy.
At a target for each pose.
 
Old 11-13-2012, 08:30 PM   #4
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^ Not really equivalent in my opinion, but I guess could work in some situations. Can't imagine the workflow would be very friendly though, how do you handle having the same objects driven by both animation keys and the pose mix tag? I get very unpredictable results here when I try it.

For clarification, here's a video showing Storm (the pose stuff is about 7/8 min in) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2fE0sVeT44
PoseMan is pretty similar AFAIK, I tried a couple of them and ended up going with PoseLib which I find is pretty good.

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 11-13-2012 at 08:36 PM.
 
Old 11-22-2012, 06:02 AM   #5
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I read this http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive...p/t-757215.html and I understood that a problem with making a pose libraty can be solved with CD Bind Pose. I'd like to see this plugin's potentials by means of some video presentation or a manual. Unfortunately I couldn't find the necessary information on http://www.cactus3d.com. Could you tell me, please, how can I see CD Bind Pose's potentials before buying?
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:31 AM   #6
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I agree with Brian, bunk, think of it more like our old p2p, which got taken out because of all its limitations and issues, and sadly never replaced.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomvuho
Could you tell me, please, how can I see CD Bind Pose's potentials before buying?


You can see it in use in the video I linked to above, and you can also download the plugin , install it in a demo of C4D and test it yourself that way.

Cheers,
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horganovski
^ Not really equivalent in my opinion


I can't see how it's not an equivalent. I just looked a couple of times at the video and do not see one thing that you can't do with the Morph tag as well. The one difference being that there is no preview.

There is no animation in the video, just storage of shapes. But even then …it's very possible to have key animation on a character and use the Morph tag as a library of poses (without driving the animation).
 
Old 11-23-2012, 05:15 PM   #9
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I don't think your understanding the intended purpose of the tool. Typical usage is you create and store a bunch of poses, then as you animate with the regular rig control objects (with regular animation keys on them) and you decide you want to apply a preset pose at the current frame you click on a pose and the controllers are set to that pose, and the animation is updated to that pose (typically this would be done with Autokey enabled so that the keys are created as you apply the pose).

That's just the basics, most of these tools allow you to apply the pose with varying percentages too. I know that sounds like the pose morph tag, but the workflow is completely different in that the pose tool never takes 'control' over the rig controllers, it just snaps them to a specific pose when used, the rest of the time the animator has full control over them manually.

So I stand by my point, the CD Bind pose tag is the nearest equivalent and the Pose morph tag is not similar really at all. There was the old P2P tag in Cinema several versions back which was similar but no more. This is why Clement and others have requested a new pose manager but right now there isn't one native to Cinema.

Here's a good video where you can see how someone typically uses these kind of tools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyymFI4V0UQ

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 11-23-2012, 07:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horganovski
I don't think your understanding the intended purpose of the tool. Typical usage is you create and store a bunch of poses, then as you animate with the regular rig control objects (with regular animation keys on them) and you decide you want to apply a preset pose at the current frame you click on a pose and the controllers are set to that pose, and the animation is updated to that pose (typically this would be done with Autokey enabled so that the keys are created as you apply the pose).

That's just the basics, most of these tools allow you to apply the pose with varying percentages too. I know that sounds like the pose morph tag, but the workflow is completely different in that the pose tool never takes 'control' over the rig controllers, it just snaps them to a specific pose when used, the rest of the time the animator has full control over them manually.

So I stand by my point, the CD Bind pose tag is the nearest equivalent and the Pose morph tag is not similar really at all. There was the old P2P tag in Cinema several versions back which was similar but no more. This is why Clement and others have requested a new pose manager but right now there isn't one native to Cinema.

Here's a good video where you can see how someone typically uses these kind of tools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyymFI4V0UQ

Cheers,
Brian


It's possible with Pose Morph(you basically, turn off the tag), so you actually COULD do something like P2P(but without previews), but I think it's an odd workflow because the script would turn on the tag, then the pose, then turn off the tag, and reset the pose to Zero. It literally can do it(and external morphs make it more like the other). But it's not the best workflow imo.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:04 PM   #11
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^ I guess you could do that, but seriously if you've used anything like PoseMan or PoseLib etc you'd really find that workflow pretty rough compared to what you're used to. Creating new poses as you work would be pretty clunky too as the script that's turning on and off the tag would have to find those new poses too. Really I'd just store poses in negative frames as a better workflow if I didn't have the CD Bind tag.

One thing I've thought about before is tackling something a little simpler, just trying to translate the old 'pose2shelf' tool to Python for Cinema. Even that can be a great help in some cases and I made some mods to it recently so it can handle namespaces. I think getting and storing the pose would be pretty straightforward, I've no idea how to approach dynamically creating icon buttons and adding them to the UI via code though in Cinema, don't know if it's even possible.

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 11-23-2012 at 08:09 PM.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 04:55 AM   #12
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I agree with Horganovski i because such a method makes it impossible to edit the animation by hand.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomvuho
I agree with Horganovski i because such a method makes it impossible to edit the animation by hand.


No it doesnt. It makes adding new poses tough but using what i said wouldnt prevent animation at all.

Fwiw im not saying its a great workflow. Im just saying it can work.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:25 PM   #14
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Yeah, Posemorphs can work, but not ideal since all the data is in the tag, and could potentially break if you're not careful.

That said, as long as the hierarchy of your character remains the same, it can be used. Actually, you can even copy the tag to another character and it would also transfer the poses. (again, the hierarchy must be the same.)

Right now the setup I use is with Motionclips. The only workflow disadvantage is the tracks need to be keyframed after you pose the character for it to work. Plus
If I need to add a pose, I drop in the pose I need into a Motionclip Tag, add keyframes, then remove the tag again. It's a bit cumbersome, though it's a bit easier to organize.

It's also a nice thing for unconscious motions since you can directly blend them into the timeline. The problem is if you use Motionclips for animation instead of just pose references, they override keyframes. so I normally have extra skeletons so I can blend the motionclip rig and the keyframed rig. *sigh* If only motionclips allow for blending with regular keyframes...
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:58 PM   #15
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What was wrong with the old P2P library system?
What were the bugs in it that made Maxon remove it?

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