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Old 11-12-2012, 10:56 AM   #1
klueck
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Shrink Wrap Plastic (vacuum)

Hello

I mostly do arch rendering so this is kind of challenging: simulating a vacuum wrap around an object.

Trying to recreate the multiple wrinkles and the seam of the initial plastic bag that gets its volume sucked away. It needs to be high def, for a magazine's cover.

I've been playing around with cloth simulation and the shrink wrap deformer object (only in R14 demo).

Any hints are welcome!
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:52 AM   #2
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hm,

i cannot see a reason trying to *simulate* it, unsless you have got some super secret animated magazine covers over there in switzerland. i would google for some ref pictures, like the one you have posted and then simply model it. for the basic shape you bevel the edges, for the refinement you paint on denser mesh levels with magnet or sculpting tools. just the standard cushion modeling workflow.

if you are unsure about modeling wrinkles, just google it, there are thousands of video tutorials out there. for the very basic shape you could also use dynamics. add a rigidbody tag to the object being wrapped and and a softbody tag to a subdivied box (as the plastic foil). in the softbody settings there is a pressure value, which also accepts negative values (try -5 to -20). make sure the rigid body is inside of the softbody.

Last edited by littledevil : 11-12-2012 at 11:59 AM.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:18 PM   #3
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Hi Klueck,
I'm sure I've seen a solution for some similar situations using cloth (on this forum?)…
Not sure but I think there was one about shrink wrapping plastic bottles.

And another to create pillows with cloth, years ago, the idea was similar…
(used this technique myself to create plastic bags full of soil)

From what I remember you basically take a shape (the content) and a larger cube that shapes itself around the object inside. You had to stop the sim at the desired result.


Sorry, I don't have time to search for it atm, maybe later today.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #4
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Thanks little devil.
I'm not sure if I get the point about the "simulation". The illustration will show a wraped machine (yes I know – it's less fancy than my starfish image). Maybe there's a known and tested way with Cloth Simulation (Dress-o-Matic, etc.) for such a task. I will test your method with a Softbody (only in demo mode for me).
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klueck
Thanks little devil.
I'm not sure if I get the point about the "simulation". The illustration will show a wraped machine (yes I know – it's less fancy than my starfish image). Maybe there's a known and tested way with Cloth Simulation (Dress-o-Matic, etc.) for such a task. I will test your method with a Softbody (only in demo mode for me).


hey,

i dind't meant to be rude, but your answer reflects pretty well, what i meant. with all these physical render, physical simulation and full blown world simulation engines around people tend to overdo everything. softbody and clothsim are quite complicated tasks, which take alot computing and tweaking ressources to achieve believeable results. therefor seems trying to simulate the rather exotic case of a vacuum plastic wraping (a scenario neither c4ds cloth nor the softbody engine are most likely optimized or written for) rather inefficient to me.

as i have written in my first posting, its IMHO ok to use these engines to get a rough starting shape, but unless you do have to create an animation, it is pointless to go beyond this point of detail with simulation engines (imho again ).

example :

it takes me 120 seconds to shape a 512 poly sphere into a believable basic shape of a pillow fallen onto a bed. with a cloth/softbody engine it takes me 45 seconds for a compareable shape. but unless i have to do an animation i wouldn't go beyond this point, becausing rendering all these fine wrinkle details into the pillow will be a lot more painful, than just painting /modeling them into it.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #6
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Actually, if I remember well, there's a free example scene in the preset browser doing just that with a candy machine and the new "plastic" softbody deformation.

On the other hand, I would probably just do a very simple cloth sim and sculpt/model de rest by hand with a reference...
 
Old 11-12-2012, 02:35 PM   #7
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Hi Klueck,

I would handle this with the scale tool and a HN cage.
You could also use the magnet tool to push points around,
but, here's a fast example. To tex this I just used the tiles shader in the bump
and a foil / turbulence for the bump wrinkles.

HTH

Edit: bit more tweaking in this last image.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #8
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Maybe this is helpful… (can't find the threads I was rambling about, sorry)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...=plastic+vacuum

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:46 PM   #9
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Thanks vid2k2,
This looks very good! As always the background is part of the solution for reflective materials.
I think that the cloth simulation or the soft body technique are both a good way to start.

Unfortunately the client now tends to use a stock picture instead of a new illustration. It's more a design issue since the machine they want to wrap is a boring cubic shape that does not produce an interesting wrap.

Nevertheless, I will come back to this task another time. Especially the seam is challenging.

@UP
Never thought about shrinking the size of a cloth around a collider, instead of the dress-o-matic (seam) simulation.

Last edited by klueck : 11-14-2012 at 12:48 PM.
 
Old 11-14-2012, 05:09 PM   #10
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Use a Collision Deformer, set to Inside(volume) or whatever it's called(I don't have it in front of me). That's how lots of us did things like recreating Han Solo being frozen in Carbonite.

It will be infinitely easier, and faster than trying to simulate.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:45 PM   #11
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kluenck - I once had to create a surgeon's hand (wearing the latex glove). Very similar to what you're doing. I used dressomatic, and I did a lot of experimentation. I can't remember specifically what got me there, but I did end up finding the right combination of things to create the latex wrinkles. I know my "glove" was pretty highly subdivided, maybe there were 15-20 polys across the back of the hand, somewhere around there. I played with the settings a lot when I hit go, to get it to suck down onto the hand model in the right way. Anyway, if you want realism, I think cloth is the way to go. Also, FYI, my hand had to be animated, so I ended up deleting the actual hand model underneath the glove, and I just rigged the glove instead. There was no way to keep the two surfaces from colliding when you start moving fingers around. So not sure if you have to animate anything, but know that scenario is coming if you've got to move stuff around (since you maybe will need one surface to be transparent).
 
Old 11-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfon5168
Use a Collision Deformer, set to Inside(volume)

Oh there's a new deformer (still working R10...). Very interesting. I think it's the best way to go! I've one problem remaining: the wrap intersects with sharp corners of the collider object. Increasing the segments apparently does not solve this issue. Any idea?

@jerm
Thanks for the example. Good to know I am not alone ;-)
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:04 PM   #13
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:43 AM   #14
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Thanks Dataflow.

Using the size settings in Cloth does the trick very well!
(Still waiting if the client will use a stock image or a 3D...)
I honestly think that a CG image in this case is less "real" than a studio shot... also because it is a macro shot showing every detail (reflections, surface, etc.).
Nevertheless, I've been playing around with R14 demo. I get good results when the wraped shape is not a cube but rather a dome with a rectangular base shape.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:43 AM   #15
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