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Old 08-22-2012, 06:36 AM   #1
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Michael Delaney
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Render Layers

Does anyone else want a sane way to render out completely separate objects without using buffers in C4D? Ala Maya's render layer system? C4D already has a layer manager, why not integrate that with the render output?

I already know about the Render Elements plugin and as great as that is, it still does not provide 1/10th the power and flexibility of render layers. Adam did an amazing job at providing a solution to a big problem that hasn't yet been adressed by Maxon. That said, saving out separate .c4d files for each individual pass you want separate is an archaic way of doing this. And it doesn't work with user data or expresso from what I remember.

I've submitted feature requests to Maxon for 4 years about this. I don't know how everyone else puts up with the current system. I guess most people who use C4D haven't used a program like Maya that provides this functionality and doesn't know about the benefits. Or perhaps, they think C4D render passes are the same as Maya render layers.

Does anyone else want this functionality? Why isn't this in C4D after 14 versions?

Also, how about a native shadow caster shader that actually works. That bogus plugin thats been floating around for years only works with soft shadows and even then doesn't always do what you want.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 06:59 AM   #2
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It's one of those features that you need to use before you realize how indispensable it is.

Unfortunately, you still need to save separate scenes out when working with C4D. All sorts of nervous ticks and twitches plague me every time I have to do this.

Having said that, if anyone can do this feature right, it's Maxon. It took Maya about 3-4 major releases to fix the crippling mess that was the initial Render Layer feature.


I'd rather Maxon do it right the first time around.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 07:55 AM   #3
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Thumbs up

Totally agree with you both,

The first few struggling attempts at the render layers manager that's in Maya was one of the darkest periods of my life. However, having to live without that functionality is quite sad.

I think you're right eikonoklastes, it's one of those features you have to have used in order to request it. My mind boggles every time I read on forums how people ask how to do this, and the average cinemite will answer with a description on how to use the object buffer.

The workflow of saving separate files works I guess, but it is just sad, as it has no flexibility whatsoever. And in case there would be feedback on basically anything in the scene then the process would have to be repeated.

So to answer your question fusepilot. "Does anyone else want a sane way to render out completely separate objects without using buffers in C4D?" I say: HELL YEAH!
 
Old 08-22-2012, 08:41 AM   #4
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Very much yes (as long as it works with VRay).
 
Old 08-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #5
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would be great to have something like it. It would boost produktivity drastically.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 09:27 AM   #6
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Adam Swaab ... Render Elements...

http://adamswaab.wordpress.com/2011...-on-quit-fixed/

some videos
http://vimeo.com/groups/75998

br, Lubo

edit, now I read all your post, you know about it...

Last edited by bezo : 08-22-2012 at 09:31 AM.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 09:58 AM   #7
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Why don't we all head on over to:
http://www.maxon.net/support/suggestions.html

...and give a nice reminder.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:56 PM   #8
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Second that : Hell yeah there is a major need of something like that !!
I think we should make the list of all the features that this "Ultimate Layer Render" should do...
Maybe a coder here can dig into that'll love to buy that kind of plugin.

Cheers
 
Old 08-22-2012, 03:32 PM   #9
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Glad to hear that I'm not the only one missing this feature. I'm working on a project right now that has 63 deliverables. Each one needs separated layers and passes, something to the tune of ~1200 image sequences in total. It is a complete nightmare with the current C4D render system.

@skydistortion As a coder myself, this is something that no third party could develop if anyone wanted it done right. This needs to be C4D core functionality to work seamlessly with the object manager, layer system, and all renderers. Just like it is in Maya.

@dEnbom Yes, but personally, I'm tired of throwing my thoughts into the deep abyss that is the Maxon suggestion form. Zero replies or signs of recognition for 4+ years. I'm not convinced they even read them.

I'd love to see more thoughts/feelings on this. A ruckus per se.

Last edited by fusepilot : 08-22-2012 at 03:38 PM.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 03:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusepilot
@dEnbom Yes, but personally, I'm tired of throwing my thoughts into the deep abyss that is the Maxon suggestion form. Zero replies or signs of recognition for 4+ years. I'm not convinced they even read them.


I understand... Aren't there actual employees frequenting this forum? Maybe somebody who knows who they are could PM them and ask them to have a look and comment in this thread? Also spreading the word on twitter etc. and if you know people who might review the latest release on their blog or something, maybe they could comment on the fact that there's still not a word about this.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 04:24 PM   #11
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a maxon employee will see this, go and check the suggestion database, see it is there, maybe make a peep on it there, and it will continue as the management/development teams see fit.

Official submissions by you guys is the one thing that gives them a little more quantitative numbers on people requesting it, where as having an employee or tester point it out won't do a whole lot more.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LucentDreams
a maxon employee will see this, go and check the suggestion database, see it is there, maybe make a peep on it there, and it will continue as the management/development teams see fit.

Official submissions by you guys is the one thing that gives them a little more quantitative numbers on people requesting it, where as having an employee or tester point it out won't do a whole lot more.


QFA - and if you see that someone else has already requested and therefore let them have the only suggestion it probably won't even ping on the radar. Where as is every person that really wanted this feature were to go in and submit the request it is more likely to register as a necessity.

-also will say that the "how can this not be a feature after 14 versions" is ridiculous.
CINEMA has not had 14 releases since render layers in Maya hit the market.
It's not like it was the defacto in all software, and from the sounds of it even AD still couldn't get it right for several versions. Given the wealth of studios they work with, access to programmers / huge beta tester base, it kind of makes you think that render layers are a huge, complicated undertaking.
-also this doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see render layers as well...it's just the phrase specifically that really irks me. So much technology has been developed since CINEMA first became a pro-app...so it's not even like maxon could have really planned for it.
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Last edited by chi : 08-22-2012 at 06:22 PM.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 06:42 PM   #13
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@chi Maybe I should have phrased it differently. It's a question that I often ask myself. I'd honestly like to know the reason, be it lack of demand for the feature, not enough resources or time to code it, whatever. If its lack of demand, then thats something we can actually do something about.

Last edited by fusepilot : 08-22-2012 at 08:06 PM.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusepilot
@chi Maybe I should have phrased it differently. It's a question that I often ask myself. I'd honestly like to know the reason, be it lack of demand for the feature, not enough resources or time to code it, whatever. If its lack of demand, then thats something we can actually do something about.


There is really only one fundamental thing to answer: What's the budget?
No matter how you see it, somehow, someone, somewhere need to put man hours
into a function. Work that needs to be financed.
Budget, not only being how much does it "cost" but also, how big is the payback using it.
The one that finds the payback good enough will invest, or nothing will happen.

Cheers
Lennart
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcastudios
There is really only one fundamental thing to answer: What's the budget?
No matter how you see it, somehow, someone, somewhere need to put man hours
into a function. Work that needs to be financed.
Budget, not only being how much does it "cost" but also, how big is the payback using it.
The one that finds the payback good enough will invest, or nothing will happen.

Cheers
Lennart


Yeah...like AD probably had a couple hundred large studios asking for the functionality. So for them the few years of development pay off.
For MAXON you probably have a much smaller userbase that wants the feature.

Best thing is to get everyone you know to request it.
Make some fake email addresses for the pets and get them to request it too
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