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Old 08 August 2012   #61
Originally Posted by robotbob: but will the result be able to be rendered as multipass ?


C4d doesnt allow you to export a shader to a multipass, however you can send a channel to a layer. Derya just showed me a technique which allows you the send any shader to a multipass layer.its a workaround , but it works fine.So if you really have to have any of these vertex maps as a standalone layer , it can indeed be done.

cheers
Paul
 
Old 08 August 2012   #62
Hi Paul,

there you have a few quite cool maps!
And they are so basic and universal.

Maybe it would be best if you could sell the shaders to MAXON.
In my opinion, that stuff belongs in the core and I'd guess you could make more money (with less effort) in one go that way than selling single licenses to individual users.

Kind regards,
Tom
 
Old 08 August 2012   #63
Challenge there is that Maxon isn't generally in the business of buying and integrating plugins unlike some of their competition.
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Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 08 August 2012   #64
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: Challenge there is that Maxon isn't generally in the business of buying and integrating plugins unlike some of their competition.

No, of course not, they just do it all the time!

And to avoid any misunderstandings, I'm talking about some kind of licensing and not about company take-overs or asset deals.

Edit:
And by the way, my recommendation was related to:
Originally Posted by tapaul: >will there be a chance to generate a fast AO posteffect that does not depend on the mesh quality?
Not in this project(this is vertex maps and it has to get finished sometime). But if I thought there was any real interest(meaning enough potential buyers), why not.However, atm, the potenital buyers thing is not looking good, judging by the amount of plugins im selling these days.


But now back to topic, please.

Kind regards,
Tom

Last edited by TBLebowski : 08 August 2012 at 01:07 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #65
Originally Posted by TBLebowski: No, of course not, they just do it all the time!
Kind regards,
Tom

Outside of Bhodinut Smells like Almonds I'd love to here your list of ones they do all the time, the only other integrated plugin shader I can specifically think of is chanlum which is a different situation entirely.
__________________
Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 08 August 2012   #66
Originally Posted by tapaul: ok, I figured out how to use the vertex bake function in c4d's bake tag (well hidden)


Yes it is, indeed!

Originally Posted by tapaul: I made the following comparison. I have no idea what settings c4d uses for that AO bake , but mine is using distance 1m , 4 rays and smooth 1 and it can be modified interactivly. ...


Just a little hint for C4Ds baked AO vertex maps:
I usually use the paint tool in smooth mode and apply all to get a better result in short time.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #67
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: Outside of Bhodinut Smells like Almonds I'd love to here your list of ones they do all the time, the only other integrated plugin shader I can specifically think of is chanlum which is a different situation entirely.


I don't talk about shaders only but yes, you still quoted the SLA shaders from cebas and also the chanlum shader.

But there is more:
Thinking Particles is originally from cebas too.

Some of Matthias Bobers (Bobtronic) former plugins are now integrated in C4D (e.g. Real Fresnel) as he is meanwhile a MAXON developer. And maybe even AO, but I'm not sure if it's his own implementation in this case, I just know that he did an AO/dirt shader for C4D at about 2005.

The R14 will have a motion camera and camera morph, implemented by Frank Willeke formerly known as ScoobyCamTools.

And also new in R14 is the "Camera Calibrator" what is basically PhotoMatch and I wouldn't be surprised if it was also coded by Arndt von Koenigsmarck himself.

And of course there are consistently new features where there had been plugins from third party developers before. Maybe that's sometimes annoying for the developers but in my eyes not essentially a bad thing for the users.

e.g.: NaviCam (the new camera navigation from R13), SpeedMud (the new R14 snapping with dynamic guides and workplanes).
Since a while we have MoGraph but before there was the Jenna plugin.
And not to forget the great "Hair" module that displaced "Shave and a Haircut" by Joe Alter.

I'm sure there is more, but I think that's enough examples.

And again, can we please stop this now and go back to topic?
 
Old 08 August 2012   #68
Originally Posted by TBLebowski: I don't talk about shaders only but yes, you still quoted the SLA shaders from cebas and also the chanlum shader.

SLA/Dirt was from David Farmer/Bhodinut and to the best of my knowledge the only preexisting plugin for CINEMA 4D that got integrated. This was 11 years ago in R7.
Originally Posted by TBLebowski: But there is more:
Thinking Particles is originally from cebas too.

TP for CINEMA 4D was a comissioned work, it did not exist as a plugin for CINEMA 4D before.

Originally Posted by TBLebowski: Some of Matthias Bobers (Bobtronic) former plugins are now integrated in C4D (e.g. Real Fresnel) as he is meanwhile a MAXON developer. And maybe even AO, but I'm not sure if it's his own implementation in this case, I just know that he did an AO/dirt shader for C4D at about 2005.

Matthias plugins got integrated well after he started working for Maxon.


Originally Posted by TBLebowski: The R14 will have a motion camera and camera morph, implemented by Frank Willeke formerly known as ScoobyCamTools.

Again this has only become a part of CINEMA 4D after the developer joined Maxon.

Originally Posted by TBLebowski: And also new in R14 is the "Camera Calibrator" what is basically PhotoMatch and I wouldn't be surprised if it was also coded by Arndt von Koenigsmarck himself.

While similar in funtionality they have nothing to do with one another. Arndt wrote so himself in another thread here.

Originally Posted by TBLebowski: And of course there are consistently new features where there had been plugins from third party developers before. Maybe that's sometimes annoying for the developers but in my eyes not essentially a bad thing for the users.

Maxon tries to cater to the needs of the users, this does lead to overlap with existing plugins

Originally Posted by TBLebowski: e.g.: NaviCam (the new camera navigation from R13), SpeedMud (the new R14 snapping with dynamic guides and workplanes).

Again stuff that came into CINEMA 4D when the developer joined Maxon

Originally Posted by TBLebowski: Since a while we have MoGraph but before there was the Jenna plugin.

Sadly Jenna from David Farmer was defunct and wasn't developed any further. Seeing the needs of the users Maxon came up with a new and imo better solution.

Originally Posted by TBLebowski: And not to forget the great "Hair" module that displaced "Shave and a Haircut" by Joe Alter.

Hair was a completely new development done after it turned out that S&H wasn't relay the long term solution to hair in CINEMA 4D that was hoped for

What i want to point out by this is that different to some competitors we know, Maxon isn't in the business of buying code, adding it and forgetting it, but adding manpower and know how.
All examples for a different MO are about a decade old.
For the future don't expect CINEMA 4D to grow by buying up code but by adding brains and passion.

Cheers
Björn
__________________
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The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.

Last edited by Srek : 08 August 2012 at 07:31 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #69
Hi Björn,

thanks for clearing things up!

Originally Posted by Srek: SLA/Dirt was from David Farmer/Bhodinut and to the best of my knowledge the only preexisting plugin for CINEMA 4D that got integrated. This was 11 years ago in R7.

Yes right, my fault, SLA was bhodiNUT of course and not Cebas.

And I didn't say that's a bad thing. In fact I rather appreciated it!
It was a highlight to me, when I heard that the all the bhodyNUT stuff got integrated in C4D R7.3.


Originally Posted by Srek: TP for CINEMA 4D was a comissioned work, it did not exist as a plugin for CINEMA 4D before.

Didn't say it was a plugin before, just that it was third party stuff.

And the only thing with TP is, that there was nearly no real further development for it since it's implementation.
Please don't get me wrong it's still great but there is room for improvement.

Originally Posted by Srek: Matthias plugins got integrated well after he started working for Maxon.

That's what I said!


Originally Posted by Srek: Again this has only become a part of CINEMA 4D after the developer joined Maxon.

Frank is a smart guy and I'm already curious and inquisitive what he'll contribute to C4D in the future.


Originally Posted by Srek: While similar in funtionality they have nothing to do with one another. Arndt wrote so himself in another thread here.

Okay, now I'm in the know of that also. Thank you for the clarification.
As I told, that was just a speculation by me and to be honest, this kind of perspective camera matching isn't directly rocket science.
But I appreciate it to be integrated in C4D now.
(Maybe with animation support, respectively real match moving supplement in the future?)


Originally Posted by Srek: Maxon tries to cater to the needs of the users, this does lead to overlap with existing plugins

And it surely won't be possible to avoid.
I for myself also favor integrated solutions over third party plugins as long as it's broadly useful stuff and not just a niche product for very special purposes.


Originally Posted by Srek: Again stuff that came into CINEMA 4D when the developer joined Maxon

Didn't know for sure but guessed so.


Originally Posted by Srek: Sadly Jenna from David Farmer was defunct and wasn't developed any further. Seeing the needs of the users Maxon came up with a new and imo better solution.

And I'm happy you did I would have missed Jenna badly otherwise.

I'm a big fan of MoGraph. It's a highlight in C4D and so universal in use.
(I was a fan of Jenna too for the same reasons. )


Originally Posted by Srek: Hair was a completely new development done after it turned out that S&H wasn't relay the long term solution to hair in CINEMA 4D that was hoped for

I very appreciated that too even though I bought "Shave and a Haircut" before.
(I wish I hadn't but that's life.)


Originally Posted by Srek: What i want to point out by this is that different to some competitors we know, Maxon isn't in the business of buying code, adding it and forgetting it, but adding manpower and know how.
All examples for a different MO are about a decade old.

To quote myself:
Originally Posted by TBLebowski: And to avoid any misunderstandings, I'm talking about some kind of licensing and not about company take-overs or asset deals.

And to repeat myself: I'm in favor for it and not against!

Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested what I did above, would I?
Originally Posted by TBLebowski: Hi Paul,

there you have a few quite cool maps!
And they are so basic and universal.

Maybe it would be best if you could sell the shaders to MAXON.
In my opinion, that stuff belongs in the core and I'd guess you could make more money (with less effort) in one go that way than selling single licenses to individual users.

Kind regards,
Tom



Originally Posted by Srek: For the future don't expect CINEMA 4D to grow by buying up code but by adding brains and passion.

Cheers
Björn

Great, I hope so!

Cheers,
Tom
 
Old 08 August 2012   #70
guys, can you keep on topic ?

Its flattering that he would think my idea worthy of integration. not gonna happen , leave it at that. That you both would both feel you have to come into my "constructive" thread and counter a passing comment is what? what is that?? deconstructive?

neither of you wasted a comment on the thread yet, so why start now? and why on such a negative unrelated basis?

Allow me to churp things up a bit and announce that im also working on a really cool scene wide shadow pass. Thats something positive and worth looking forward to.



regards
Paul Everett
Tools4D.com

Last edited by tapaul : 08 August 2012 at 11:39 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #71
Sorry Paul, my bad, you know i can get passionate at times
__________________
- www.bonkers.de -
The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #72
Originally Posted by Srek: Sorry Paul, my bad, you know i can get passionate at times


more like, to much ice cream
 
Old 08 August 2012   #73
Tools4D Ultimate Shadow

RE: that full shadow pass.
ADD sky
Enable Tools4D Ultimate Shadow.
render.
(rmb to view full image)
critiq welcome.

model is by kizo.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #74
My apologies too, Paul, didn't mean to side track, just tired of seeing every new plugin get a comment about being added to core product and then complaints when they released new version with similar features.

For comments on the Ultimate shadow, I think a little more explanation on what we are seeing would help, is this also a vertex map based shader, or a surface shader that allows for softer attentuation? Reason I'm confused is because you showed your system can do shadow vertex maps already, although without attentuation, so I'm not sure if this is an improvement on that, ro simply some form of softer attentuated shadow. If it's the latter than I'm not clear yet as to what the benefit is, if it's the prior it's an impressive improvement
__________________
Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 08 August 2012   #75
its a post effect plugin (as is c4d GI and AO) which disables c4d shadows and uses my sun shadow algorithm to cast an accurate diffusing shadow into the entire scene, from the sun. You can not get anything like it from either an area or a soft shadow.Its a no brainer, you add a sky object, which defines where the sun is. enable the effect and just render, its swaps c4d shadows for my shadows. It's not using vertex maps, so there are no limitations to how this shadow can be used.

regards
Paul
 
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