R20 expectations?

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  04 April 2018
R20 expectations?

I know it's kind of spamming thread and would like to apologies in advance about it but R20 will out this year and it could be nice for everybody (and may be Maxon team to check) to post here their expectations of what it could give to us all. I know that there's Suggestions Page on Maxon's site but it seems like not everybody post there their thoughts on what could be nice to have in cinema4D (I did but yet don't know will it be integrated some day or not). The one other reason I post this thread is because there are many people I see lately who goes away from Cinema4D to other software because of better integrated solutions even if it's just smaller enhancements for one tool (booleans as an example).

My needs for staying with Cinema4D is rather simple: modern UV tools, better modelling (incl. better booleans) and selection tools.
Don't think that it's necessary to have AR\VR addings to have now.

What's your thoughts?

Last edited by E2GO : 04 April 2018 at 07:17 AM.
 
  04 April 2018
I don't have the hard numbers but I'd bet Maxon is gaining more customers than they are losing to other products. I know I'm not going anywhere.

I'll post my wish list for this version and/or the next:

Beyond the obvious ones we all agree on (-Faster Viewport, UV pipeline complete redesign, Improved symmetry features):

-A Mesh-Fusion type boolean feature would be quite welcome
-Sketch and Toon improvements, esp. multi-processor support or GPU rendering
-Xpresso update
-Deeper Integration and extension of physics systems 
-Mograph and mo-effectors for materials (something I recently posted about)
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  04 April 2018
No real idea. Frankly, if R20's only party trick was to push millions of objects around with billions of polys – and do it smoothly and responsively –  that would be enough for me to upgrade. 
 
  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: I don't have the hard numbers but I'd bet Maxon is gaining more customers than they are losing to other products. I know I'm not going anywhere.

I dont have any hard numbers either 
however there are many who simply stop upgrading/paying the MSA.
Many settle on a version of studio and patch the long ignored gaps with third party plugins an external applications
particulary those who need character animation tools with usable retargeting options, lip synch ,scalability 
as well as VFX like fluids.
 
  04 April 2018
I would venture to say that those who do serious character animation for a living wouldnt be using c4d as their primary  tool of choice anyway, and probably  wouldn't box themselves into the corner of using  a 10 year old version of the software either. Unless its for self initiated work as opposed to client work where you will need to be up to date for a variety of reasons..

Looking forward to 20 but with a wary eye.
Overall Im very happy with c4d. It is what it is.
 
  04 April 2018
ProRender working on macs with nvidia cards. Would settle for that alone.

ProRender massive speed increase.

Better UV tools.

Something like Mesh Fusion.
 
  04 April 2018
Expectations?
I expect to be very sad when I write a C++ plugin using R13 and it won't run for R20 users like I've been doing for the past decade.

-ScottA
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  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by JoelDubin: I would venture to say that those who do serious character animation for a living wouldnt be using c4d as their primary  tool of choice anyway, and probably  wouldn't box themselves into the corner of using  a 10 year old version of the software either. Unless its for self initiated work as opposed to client work where you will need to be up to date for a variety of reasons..



Having the latest version is critical when exchanging actual program native scene files/assets with clients.

Back when I was a Graphic Designer for print, Adobe made sure
we had to update creative suite the very moment our major clients did  or our intake of clients files halted immediately.

All of the freelance work I have done for character animation
only required a delivery format 
(rendered footage or targas,png's)

So the version of C4D I am running was rather moot.

Any client, who uses C4D and has frequent projects that
involve Character animation??

Well, those are the people, who themeselves, need to be looking at other character animation solutions to bring such work back in house, 
because literally shopping out C4D scene files, with C4D rig,s and expecting others to animate them and send them back is becoming less and less practical as Brian Horgan recently noted  in a thread. 
 
  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by JoelDubin: I would venture to say that those who do serious character animation for a living wouldnt be using c4d as their primary  tool of choice anyway, and probably  wouldn't box themselves into the corner of using  a 10 year old version of the software either. Unless its for self initiated work as opposed to client work where you will need to be up to date for a variety of reasons..

Looking forward to 20 but with a wary eye.
Overall Im very happy with c4d. It is what it is.
It can be a difficult sea to sail on when your coming from a hobbyist and moving into making a living from what you do.  As more and more software moves into the rental scheme this put the strain on a individual that is not making money from it, and has not found their direction when they seek the best possible results as a artist yet move into the playing field of commercial work. 

I was in such a position where my interest was in character art, but from many aspects such as sculpting, texturing modelling, and rigging for basic pose work at the time.  C4D perpetual model works when they also allow the sale of used licences at reduced prices.  I think C4D bridges the gap for the character artist where they transition between a hobbyist to a character artist commercially.  The scope to add high end render engines opens up the offerings to get the results that are only found on rental only licences base software such as Maya.  The other aspect is usability and creative workflows, not everyone is tech savy, yet have great potential as a artist.  I agree with you about being a serious character animator, Im not sure where C4D fits in the grand scheme of things, there is some character work being done in C4D for both TV adds, shorts, and smaller scale games.  Is it a generalist tool, a artist friendly platform that crosses the line between hobbyist to commercial?  i think thats what C4D is with a target at Mograph as its core strength, but C4D keeping its licensing options all be it still very expensive it offers a glimmer of affordability and choice for those who just cant justify Maya's on going outlay.

I dont regret getting C4D, its all I could afford at the time, and was not sure which direction commercially I was going at the time, plus 3D is somethings that is my way of being a artist on a personal level, not just to make a living with it.  I think Maxon can still make it play better with animation workflows, and be a contender for higher end character work, I may just be one of the ones that pushes its boundaries for such things in the coming years.

Dan
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, Zbrush 2018, Unfold3D 9,Marvelous Designer 7, Keyshot 6 pro.
 
  04 April 2018
+1 to Darth Mole's comment.

Years ago I posted a comment on this forum labeling C4D "the 85% application". Maxon seems to have the habit of delivering features that promise much - but deliver about 85% of what should be expected. There are lots of them. I'd love to see some of those become "95% features" - whatever they are. I'd forgive them the last 5% : )

I also think 'we' might be expecting a bit too much - but I'd love to be proved wrong. Yes, "20" is a nice round number, but I guess Maxon has roughly the same number of developers working on the product as they did last year, working a similar number of hours. So I don't expect they'll magically be able to deliver twice as many improvements.

I'm also a little concerned about the plugin situation. Probably like many of us I have more than a few favourite plugins that won't make the leap to v20.

Last edited by Mike Abbott : 04 April 2018 at 04:32 PM.
 
  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by Darth Mole: No real idea. Frankly, if R20's only party trick was to push millions of objects around with billions of polys – and do it smoothly and responsively –  that would be enough for me to upgrade. 
See also:
[/thread]
 
  04 April 2018
Maxon pretty much did things backwards when they got bought by a German CAD company.

Instead of working on updated rendering features, new physics (e.g. fluids, destruction physics), powerful new character animation features, game-engine integration and similar, they tried to make C4D an archviz/productviz and motion graphics, broadcast graphics tool instead.

That probably made them tons of money over they years, except that that money did not result in swift delivery of aforementioned rendering, physics, CA, game development and similar features.

If Maxon had done things the right way around, many people bailing out of dying LightWave, Softimage, and now also Max and Maya (the stupid subscription model) would probably have ended up on C4D. Instead, a lot of those people are looking to Blender as their new savior.

A price cut would have helped also. C4D is overpriced by about 1K to 1.5K for what it actually delivers in Studio.

C4D is a greatly usable 3D software that unfortunately delivers vital new CG technology and features about 5 - 6 years after everybody else got them in some form.
 
  04 April 2018
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Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com
 
  04 April 2018
Surely that should be Captain Foresight? We're looking into the future here!
 
  04 April 2018
Damn! I have abandoned Vue for C4D and you tell me now that people are moving away from Cinema 4D ? Aargh!
I agree with all your suggestions, especially about selection tools - I had a short adventure with Softimage - it has very handy/reliable  loop selection tools - I miss it in C4D
I have written down all my suggestions for C4D on this webpage http://b0.y0.pl/C4D.htm and I have already notified a guy from Maxon about it.
I am waiting for his response. I hope they'll use some of my ideas.
Those are mainly suggestions concerning display/interface,  component selection, subdivision (dicing, slicing etc..), better bevel - Softimage bevel is once again more robust, in fewer situation it creates bad geometry. 
But you are right that about booleans - in C4D, booleans often create faulty geometry - in Softimage booleans produced much cleaner results.

I am using Maxon Suggestions webpage pretty often - also to report bugs.
Since Suggestions web page does not provide any feedback, I wasn't sure if Maxon developers read it, but a guy from Maxon told me that indeed, they check all those posts and do their best to implement what they can.  Also if you are not a beta-tester, this is the best way to report C4D bugs.

Last edited by czarnyrobert : 04 April 2018 at 11:31 AM.
 
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