RenderWars Update Winter 2018

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  12 December 2017
RenderWars Update Winter 2018

I use the term "RenderWars" in the title but I am thoroughly exhausted by competitive discussions and hope we can engage in a friendly conversation.

In the interest of full disclosure I will convey that I own VRAY, Octane and Cycles, but have no prejudice towards which one is "best" nor in using something different in the future.

So many new features have arrived in the past few years and Redshift seems to be quite the rage these days in many parts. I will share my likes and dislikes of products that I own, but will be eager to see the impressions of others.

My own posts will be installment style and in no particular order.
  12 December 2017
Here are some of the newer features that have arrived recently, or are coming soon in various renderers:

-Built in de-noising (Cycles, Octane w/3.08, others)
-Toon Rendering/Cel Rendering (Octane, maybe Redshift in 2018)
-VBD rendering for volumes of fog, noise, smoke, etc (all programs to some degree)
-AOVs for 'Deep Compositing' (best of class: Arnold)
-Additional channels/passes(best of class: Arnold)
-Greater rendering speed in specific areas (Redshift fastest in some; Octane w/other scene types)
-Triplanar Textures (Octane, others?)
-Integration of using both CPU/GPU (Thea was first)
-Specific integration w/popular plugins like x-Particles (Cycles for obvious reasons)
  12 December 2017
Vray 3.6 has just been released (official announcement coming soon)
Iray support for C4D has ceased (got an email from Nvidia)
Thea Render updated for R19 (posted on the Thea C4D forum)
Les Sandelman
  12 December 2017
vRay 3.6, for Cinema, or just in general? If the latter, it might be a while before 3.6 is available for Cinema.

I love vRay, but becoming increasingly spoiled working with the GPU rendering engines, such as Redshift & Cycles. The IPR in vRay isn't stable, or finished, and that isn't fault of the Vray 4 Cinema people. I believe thats a core issue with vRay and the moment.
  12 December 2017
Originally Posted by Bullit: Redshift will get Nvidia denoising and already has a triplanar node since version 2.5
Redshift is coming hard. I believe their developers worked at Nvidia and they are leveraging those ties. Their denoiser utilizes Nvidia's artificial intelligence. I don't know how useful any of the denoisers are--haven't deeply explored...I haven't even played w/Redshift yet. But lots of folks seem to be switching over.

Seems to offer a lot of the strengths of both Octane (fast, GPU based) and Arnold (lots of production features)

Redshift does seem to demand a lot of it's users. It's node system is powerful but is a bit tedious to setup even simple materials. Its a biased renderer but maybe that's OK...seems to afford more flexibility and speed.

Last edited by IceCaveMan : 12 December 2017 at 05:46 PM.
  12 December 2017
I don't think Redshift demands a lot even for node based, i think it fits the Cinema 4D paradigm. In Redshift forum there are a lot of feedback for Cinema 4D version.
Caveat: i am a Softimager and everything is easier than Mentalray and obviously nodes for me are natural.

I think a good starting point are the Brograph tuts

You just have to register in the forum and get the demo to play.

Edit: Oops forgot, you need a Nvidia card.
  12 December 2017
Vray 3.6 is available now for anyone that has been upgrading all along (3.3, 3.4 & 3.5).
It is based on the Vray 3.6 core. I don't if it is on feature parity with the 3.6 Max version (I don't use Max).

There is supposed to be an official announcement coming soon (Might be a day or so).

That's all I know.
Les Sandelman
  12 December 2017
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: I don't know how useful any of the denoisers are--haven't deeply explored...I haven't even played w/Redshift yet. But lots of folks seem to be switching over
Denoiser in cycles works quite well in my limited experience (past month).
  12 December 2017
Another feature that's come to a number of renderers is light bloom.

It's been in some renderers for some time. New to others.

VRAY Bloom/Lens effects:

Cycles added bloom in latest release, along with Glare, Vignette and Filmic Effects.
  12 December 2017
From a price/value perspective VRAY and Cycles have two compelling advantages:
-Cycles is around $250 USD and includes a few nodes; one can add an additional five-pack for extra nodes pretty cheaply
-VRAY includes unlimited render nodes

Cycles does not permit team rendering of a single image, though you can utilize on multi-frame animation. Octane and VRAY send out buckets of an individual image for distributed rendering--great for both previews and final sequences.

I don't know how Team Rendering in Arnold and Redshift compare functionally, but believe adding additional computers is pricey.
  12 December 2017
Vray4C4D has had many new things added between 3.5 and 3.6. Here are a few things that I find helpfull, and some that iv yet to try.

Light selection post rendering. Very nice to be able to turn on. off or adjust lighting post render which updates the render to show how all other elements should react in real time.
ALsurface produces the most realistic skin and is known for a long time to be a standing point in the best out there for Arnold exclusivly until now which is in Vray 3.5 onwards. Also now ALhair has been added which produces some very realistic tones to the hair.
TexHairinfo sampler shader is realy nice to use for hair giving you additional control over how colour is applied to hair.
Standard Material which is the same as Max, and is very fast and easy to set up a basic material in no time at all, it also renders very fast.
Adaptive lights upto 7 times faster with multiple lights in the scene, this is realy fast.
Resume rendering is a great addition, and I used this myself as I cant have the system of 24/7. It picks up where it left off with no problems.
Hybrid CPU GPU rendering is how in Vray4c4d but I have not seen any decent gains from others test iv seen, not used it myself.
The New Blend Material looks much better and look forward to using it with its new Amount settings and multiplyer. I also noted that it now plays well with AL surface.
Since 3.4 its way easier to set up Vray. The settings have been fine tuned to work out the box, there is a more simple quick quality settings only problem is there is no way to go back to quick settings they do not update with current settings already set.

Things Id like to see improoved on are as follows.

IPR is not stable as stable as It should be. in fact very crash prone for me so much that I dont ever use it, and does not show material changes realtime. It does not support SDS tag, all materials show grey without textures on if used. You can use the dislacement material to general a smooth mesh however. ChaosGroup need to provide more support by all accounts to get the IRP better.

The viewport is very poor in representation of light, texture or material from Vray. Maxon need to share their OpenGL code so it get take advantage of the nice viewport in r19, looking at Maya viewport 2 with Vray makes me weep.

C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, Zbrush 2018, Unfold3D 9,Marvelous Designer 7, Keyshot 6 pro.

Last edited by Rectro : 12 December 2017 at 02:07 PM.
  12 December 2017
Good info, Dan. I look forward to trying the new release this week. One user has an interesting approach to real-time previews w/VRAY while the IPR is getting polished. It looks to work quite well.

This video doesn't reflect the latest updates, but does show enhancements from 3.4. I think some people in the c4d world are sleeping on VRAY, and should give it a fresh look.

Last edited by IceCaveMan : 12 December 2017 at 07:08 PM.
  12 December 2017
Thanks Dan and others for pointing out new features in vray 3.6. Sometimes difficult to know unless you look at forum every day. I wish they would have a pinned thread like Otoy & Redshift, with notes on latest engine.

Anyone know if IPR is more table in other DCC apps? If not, then its simply a matter of Chaos catching up I presume. Its amazing how useful Arnold's IPR is, despite not having GPU dependencies. Once you've designed with an IPR, its hard to go back, at least my experience.

We are spoiled a bit now, there are a number of good solutions. But clearly, the GPU solutions are the future.
  12 December 2017
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan:
"I think some people in the c4d world are sleeping on VRAY, and should give it a fresh look."
euphemism !!
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