Future Of Cinema 4D

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  05 May 2013
Originally Posted by hsrdelic: @AntimatterVFX

I can't disclose any information regarding development since I am not a beta tester anymore and work for MAXON now
While I was just in beta team, I could have maybe afford a heavily shrouded hint few days before release, but now now.
What I can do, is express my enthusiasm about future of Cinema 4D and upcoming release, and am willing to stake my reputation that people will be very, very happy with R15

Cheers


If you are very very happy with R15 because it has greatly improved object handling speed and multi-threading that would strike a chord with whole C4D user base.

But if you're very very happy because you've piled on a load of half baked features on top of the same single threaded core then, Germany you have a problem...

The complexity of motion graphics presentations and the expectations of those commissioning them are increasing faster than Maxon is developing C4D. It's 2013 and single threading is so last century.

Don't let it be a surprise when users leave the platform like when everyone ditched LW all those years ago. Going from the ubiquitous solution to an also ran can happen very very quickly and that won't make you very very happy.
 
  05 May 2013
Originally Posted by dataflow: thats like asking a priest to tell you about someones confession.(its not going to happen)


I was wondering what all those small children at the office were for.
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Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com
 
  05 May 2013
@AntimatterVFX

Often things here on cgtalk are packed with negativity, criticism, lack of politeness and incredible difficulty in communication. At certain moments one feels that posts are made just to compete, impose, degrade someone or something, instead of healthy exchange of information. That is why I generally don't post here much.
It is incredible how Nigel managed to keep up high standards on cafe...

I just stated that I am very, very happy with R15 and that is a fact - it is right up my alley. It would be the same if I was not working for Maxon. Just sit back, relax and wait for release then make a judgement call based on facts - that would be reasonable move, right?

One thing that I don't understand is why still use software which you think is not suitable for your work anymore? For example, I ditched Mudbox since I don't have a need for it anymore. This is not in any way a provocation of any kind, I am just curious.
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  05 May 2013
This is the improvements list i would like to find in new releases

click here
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  05 May 2013
I primarily use C4D for Bodypaint.

It is a great tool for eliminating seams and the ability to simultaneously paint and more importantly, clone on several channels at once is pretty huge. Saving out a camera projection, re-opening it in Photoshop with layer masks already defined for painting/creating vector splines and projecting all that back in Cinema4D is awesome sauce. Heck, copying and pasting between the two applications and getting real time comparisons by toggling paint layers definitely beats what I had to do in order to accomplish the same with Maya.

I suspect the same is true for many other artists who utilize Cinema4D exclusively for Mograph while modeling/animating in other software.

Someone mentioned Maxon being highly secretive. That's standard for many German companies in all industries from vehicle to small electronics manufacturers. So, I suspect it's more of a cultural leaning than anything.

I would imagine that Maxon employs the same strategy as Leica: Focus on a specific niche market (motion graphics artists) without investing too heavily in other feature sets so as to not overextend themselves. Now and then they'll throw a bone out like sculpting. On the whole though, always keeps their customers at arms length and restrict channels of communication so that expectations outside of their niche scope are not formed by the public.

In fact, this is why there will never be a Photoshop equivalent in the 3D software industry - too many specializations to branch out to. All of which is further compounded by developer bias.

Really though, if Cinema4D incorporated more of Maya's features like UV editing, hotbox, the ability to actually see UV shells of more than one selected object, node-based materials, texture baking with Vray and better management of multiple UV sets; I'd be spending a whole lot more time working in Cinema4D.

Unfortunately, I suspect that we will all have to continue to switch between multiple applications solely for that one specific feature we need before moving onto the next phase in the pipeline.
 
  05 May 2013
Originally Posted by hsrdelic: @AntimatterVFX

Often things here on cgtalk are packed with negativity, criticism, lack of politeness and incredible difficulty in communication. At certain moments one feels that posts are made just to compete, impose, degrade someone or something, instead of healthy exchange of information. That is why I generally don't post here much.
It is incredible how Nigel managed to keep up high standards on cafe...


Show me a community forum on any commercial industry standard 3D software application where criticism isnít part and parcel of the usual material being posted.

That is the nature of online forums. You can either accept this or you can just cease posting and sit back as your customers whine about the lack of communication. This is why politics/customer relations is a career unto itself rather an ancillary form of activity.

But if you think this is rough, then you ought to check out an MMO forum sometime!

Quote: One thing that I don't understand is why still use software which you think is not suitable for your work anymore? For example, I ditched Mudbox since I don't have a need for it anymore. This is not in any way a provocation of any kind, I am just curious.


It probably has something to do with time and money being finite resources.

Investment in something like 3D software is considerable. It can take years to master a package by becoming familiar with its particular quirks and workflow methods. Cinema4D is no exception to this.

Sure, one could jump ship to another program but at the cost of kissing that time and money spent on mastering Cinema4D goodbye.

There are feature sets within Cinema4D that are well implemented which switchers are loathe to leave behind. This doesnít mean that the application itself canít be improved upon through valid criticism. Itís up to you as a representative to filter out the wheat from the chaff.

Speaking on my own behalf, easing out of the Autodesk ecosystem on the PC to Cinema4D/Modo on the Mac wasnít an overnight transition by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I was so use to Mayaís UI methodology that I had to customize Cinema4D to behave more like Maya. I still prefer Mayaís way of UI navigation; thatís one of the things Alias got 100% right.

What kept me on the current path was the full knowledge that Autodesk, like any other American conglomerate, was far more interested in stifling innovation to protect its own profits than improving the industry as a whole through supplying us with better tools. Much like Microsoft before it, Autodesk would buy out competitors who had revolutionary ideas that were still in its infancy and then immediately bury it. Far cheaper than actually kicking their engineers into high gear I guess.

Iíll say one thing about the Germans, they are keenly aware of their place and will occasionally sacrifice a small amount of profit to ensure that they are recognized as a pioneer in their craft. Unlike Autodeskís product line, Cinema4D actually does get better with each revision as opposed to getting worse. The fact that Maxon has had a presence in the industry for a long time while continuing to avoid the ridiculous software bloat we see elsewhere shouldnít be lost on its user base.

Of course, I have to accept that there are just some things that Cinema4D is ill-suited for and other 3D solutions would be required to complete my workflow. Nevertheless, I would much rather see Maxon implement the features that are most important for my needs so that I can spend more time in C4D instead of tangling with the likes of Autodesk. I suspect that is the goal for many users who are vocal about Maxonís products.

If they didnít care, they wouldnít be here (or on any C4D forum for that matter).
 
  05 May 2013
Folks, just to make sure, I do not represent Maxon here - every opinion here is my personal one.

I understand that forums contain criticism and am administering cafe on daily basis, but somehow I can't get rid off the feeling that people here could be more polite and respectful to each other as they are on cafe. More interesting is the fact that same people post here and there
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  05 May 2013
I'm a modest C4D user, making little animations sometimes and often medical illustrations in my daily job.
When i saw on Digital Tutors and CMIVFX the power of XSI and HOUDINI, and the new tut to make motion design with houdini, i think to myself, With the CG crisis and the global job crisis, What will happend if XSI guys and Houdini guys make mograph with there monstruous knoledge of FX and Code, and those monstruous XSI and HOUDINI tools because they allready use them in daily job, whe will probably see lot of fantastic things in the mograph world but, what will happend for C4D?
 
  05 May 2013
Well said @phaedarus, I couldn't have put it better so I won't.

@hsrdelic If you are making statements in the middle of a thread discussing the future of C4D and you are a member of the Maxon workforce you've made yourself a representative.

The distain of criticism by Maxon employees is at least consistent.

The issue of the C4D viewport/object handling has been one that has been raised for years ever since Mograph was put into the software. Maxon had plenty of notice in customers wanting better performance to better use the tools provided. GPUs and CPUs are not the problem the log jam at the heart of the application is.

There have been plenty of situations where Maxon could've come out and said in broad terms that, yes, they are we of the situation and we are working on it but it is a massive job and may not have it done for several releases. In contrast I have seen several Autodesk presentations where they are openly honest about performance issues and say they are being worked on and will be released in due course. C4D releases have come and gone with not a single sign that these concerns are being addressed just more unfinished features like CMotion and sculpting not forgetting useless stuff like Cineware.

Buying in software like Softimage to fill the gaping hole that Maxon has allowed to grow just fills the coffers of Autodesk. But what do you expect us to do, sit and hope that performance will arrive in x years time or go out and buy it today? We would've been quite happy to continue as a sole C4D studio but Maxon have been completely non-communicative over the issue of performance and show no sign that it is even a concern.

I have also discovered while researching who uses what and what for, that a lot of mograph studios I have thought of as C4D studios also use Softimage a lot. Maybe they always have or maybe it's a trend.
 
  05 May 2013
If you look at softimage newest version, you might see that it has only few new features (and those features looks like a joke).
And autodesk has fire many developers from CG part so i think that the development progress will be slower in future. I am quite sure that Autodesk is trying to kill the softimage.

C4D has had great development progress when you compare it to autodesk products. Only thing is the performance / speed - and i guess that it will be "fixed" in future releases because they have added cmotion which really sound a "feature" for crowd simulations, core rewriting in R12, Sculpting (and we all know that sculpting will need more power/speed with hughe polygon counts) so i think there is coming new "viewport" or "object manager" or something what will increase the speed of C4D.

And if you read all feature request from forums you might see that many of us have been voted for performance and multi threading. If C4D will have not "full" multi threading support and unified physics engine (what we all have requested) then we should vote with our wallets and see what will happen in R16, R17...

Last edited by jumamu : 05 May 2013 at 02:29 PM.
 
  05 May 2013
@AntimatterVFX

I don't see how my private account on this forum suddenly became "Maxon representative account" ?
This would mean that every single member who works for any company becomes their spoke person instantly after posting on forum? That is ridiculous.

To sum what happened here, I merely expressed my excitement about future of Cinema 4D and that somehow turned into Maxon secrecy bashing thread? No wonder that people who either freelance or work directly for Maxon are avoiding to post - I know I will.

Bottom line, both you and me know nothing or very little about software development, cycles, technologies needed, limitations, patents, roadmaps and whole plethora of other factors related to development of such a big piece of software, so any discussion about that is valid as two monkeys trying to solve a rubik cube - it is simply waste of energy.

Cheers

EDIT: Almost forgot Would you be so kind to send me a list, or example files which show what is it exactly that you can't do with Cinema for some mental exercise over weekend .
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Last edited by hsrdelic : 05 May 2013 at 02:27 PM.
 
  05 May 2013
I would like to know that is it possible to do jiggle deformer effect with softbody?
I would like to use soft body for self-collisions and for jiggle effect in characters...
I mean "rigged" softbody object with passive area/points which will follow the skeleton - in other words: jiggle deformer with self-collision & collisions
 
  05 May 2013
Originally Posted by phaedarus: Show me a community forum on any commercial industry standard 3D software application where criticism isnít part and parcel of the usual material being posted.That is the nature of online forums. You can either accept this or you can just cease posting and sit back as your customers whine about the lack of communication. This is why politics/customer relations is a career unto itself rather an ancillary form of activity.But if you think this is rough, then you ought to check out an MMO forum sometime!


just because the internet is full of spoiled brats, it is ok to act like a spoiled brat ?
awesome logic with which you can justify any behaviour. that being rude is just the
nature of the internet is utter nonsense. it is a minority prefering to behave like
monkeys, knowing the no one can stop them here.

Originally Posted by phaedarus: Iíll say one thing about the Germans, they are keenly aware of their place and will occasionally sacrifice a small amount of profit to ensure that they are recognized as a pioneer in their craft.


you get it, that this is pretty offensive ? would you like blabbing me some racist
stereotypes about canadians ? i guess not.
 
  05 May 2013
We all know that what kind of people are living in North America... Just look Jersey Shore, or other crap reality tv series They think they are smartest but they really aren't

I can't understand that why people love to watch those tv series, but well... maybe it is entertaining to watch idiots. South park, american dad, family guy, the simpsons are even joking with that truth and that's why these cartoons are funny .

Even in cars mirrors read that: object is closer than it looks like
Coffee might be hot, don't try to dry cats in the microwave etc... the list is endless.. And these are facts/true

But, sure america has smart peoples too... because most of the best softwares are from there (and the innovations)... Sure some of these are invented by other people from other countries who have moved to live in america because there you have better change to get more money than in Europe or in Asian...

But there are coming more innovations from Asia than from America in these days btw.
At least i have heard that kind of story from friend who are working in patent office.

Last edited by jumamu : 05 May 2013 at 03:06 PM.
 
  05 May 2013
Originally Posted by littledevil: you get it, that this is pretty offensive ? would you like blabbing me some racist
stereotypes about canadians ? i guess not.


Nope, he wasn't being at all offensive in fact quite the contrary. One of the positive stereotypes people have of Germans and Germany is the excellence in design. It is just a stereotype and not necessarily correct but he clearly meant the comment in a positive sense.

Had he mentioned Germans' predisposition for placing towels on swimming pool sunbeds in the early hours of the morning I could understand your ire, but he didn't.
 
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