ProRender Tips

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  09 September 2017
ProRender Tips

Hello Folks
Here are some ProRender quicktips.
Some are basic GPU Pathtracer workflow topics, others are prorender c4d related:

1. Dont use the color channel within shaders. instead use the pbr material where all shading happens within the reflectance channel.
other effects like luminance and bump can still happen outside of the reflectance channel. Why ? this leads to less noise in your images. Thus faster rendering.

2. Smaller Iteration Refresh Intervals lead to longer render times and vice versa in the OFFLINE Picture Viewer / Final Result Render. So if you want to have a faster render time in the Picture Viewer
use bigger values. Or use the option Never

3. dont use small light sources ( hard to calculate for a pathtracer and creates hotpixels )

4. the renderer is best suited for an exterior scenes or common scene with a sky like product visualization scenes.
indoors are slower but can be made faster by using GI Portals on windows ( Option in the Shader ).

5. prorender supports the compositing tag partly ( no inclusions or exclusions )

6. the firefly threshold kills hotpixels, but also looses detail when set too sensitive. Lower = more sensitive.

7. Radiance clamp clamps the brightest allowed pixels in your scene of all sources. prevents some hotpixels.

8. adjust the ray epsilon value accordingly to the scale of your scene. 1 mm can be too big for still life pictures where for example
a glass has a contact with the table.

9. more than 1 gpu for the viewport preview can be slower. So try to use only the recommended one.

10. AA samples influences render speed a lot. In many cases even the most.

11. big textures / hdrs can quickly fill up your vram thus this would lead to an error and the scene wont render.
This is of course hardware dependant.

12. dont use perfect sharp reflections. give always a little bit of roughness ( prevents hotpixels )

13. dont make lights or luminance planes too bright if u dont need to. instead play with their size.

14. dont use too low tessellation for your geometry otherwise shading will have artefacts.

15. tonemapping works only if 32 bit is turned on in the output settings. Its also working with the Live Preview in the Viewport

16. The Exposure and Shutter Speed is set in the Tone Mapping Photo Linear, not in the Camera itself !

17. Camera DOF is controlled in the Camera by FSTOP

18. The most usefull tonemappnig modes are Photo Linear and Reinhard

19. make sure your geometry has correct facing normals. prorender is sensitive to this.

20. for realism try always to use IES or Area lights. Especialyl the PBR Light which is a modificated Area Light.

21. Some Shaders are baked for ProRenderer others are GPU Native calculated like the Gradient Shader or Noise Shader

22. The noise shader in the Bump Channel is also baked

23. you control the resolution of shaders through the Default Texture Resolution Values in the Render settings
or within each shader with an override ( shader baking )

24. you can force a shader baking on native gpu computed shaders like gradients by putting it into a shader like Layer Shader

25. to match the ogl viewport with prorender you need:
- display mode Gouraud Shading ( Displays Area light Reflections ) or Quick Shading
- a sky object with a shader on it
- if you need light use the pbr light

26. ProRender supports the most widely used Sphericla Camera modes.

27. Options that Prorender doesnt support will be grayed out.

cheers
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Last edited by Skamierski : 09 September 2017 at 04:04 PM.
 
  09 September 2017
Thanks a lot for this!

One question regarding the Bump and Normal maps: in the PBR Reflection channel are slots for the two ...do you ignore these and always plug them into the Bump material slot?

Second: Do the multipass maps from standard or Physical match with Prorender? I guess not completely?

Cheers
 
  09 September 2017
I use Cycles 4D and it produces terrific fast results even on my Mac Pro Dustbin. The new denoise function is really terrific for reducing noise and by balancing this with iterations of the scene samples you can get a nice fast render. In contrast and rather disappointingly Pro Render just seems to be very very noisy even with a huge amount of iterations.

It would be great if someone could chime in on what they feel are good settings for Pro Render ( yes I know every scene is different) but more general things like what is a base for offline iterations. For instance we have the default setting as 100. For final rendering should this be set to 500 or 1000 or are these figures way too much with little benefit to the final picture quality. How does anti aliasing affect the iterations too.

Again I know every scene is different and the above tips are really handy to know, but I guess I am looking for advice on whether my old machine is up to the task with Pro Render (probably not I guess) and if I need to dedicate some funds to new AMD hardware to really get the best from it.
 
  09 September 2017
ceen you can use one of both bump channels.
prorender doesnt have multipasses, but you can render an Ambient Occlusion pass by switching the render mode from Global Illumination to Ambient Occlusion

rsquires. iterations dont tell you when the image is noise free. instead use the stop condition "Threshold" the smaller the values are
the longer the image will render. its checking the noise distribution and using the threshold to decide when your preferred noise levels are
achieved. as written before AA samples amount strongly influences the Rendertime.
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  09 September 2017
HI,
I was just wondering if the multipasses from the other c4d engines (standard) match with the Prorender beauty pass if you jeave out DOF for example. If for example ZBuffer, Masks and Motion vectors fit one could theoretically render anims and add camera effects in comp.
 
  09 September 2017
there is a pixel offset between those
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  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by rsquires: I use Cycles 4D and it produces terrific fast results even on my Mac Pro Dustbin. The new denoise function is really terrific for reducing noise and by balancing this with iterations of the scene samples you can get a nice fast render.

Cycles can use the two old AMD cards in the dust bin MacPro to render with the full feature set?

Last edited by BubblegumDimension : 09 September 2017 at 05:40 PM.
 
  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by BubblegumDimension: Cycles can use the two old AMD cards in the dust bin MacPro to render with the full feature set?
not really it uses the CPU but it's still quick to render to the picture viewer. You can have the GPU render it but it's slower.Viewport preview is good too but I have no idea what to benchmark it with. Sure it would be amazing with Nvidia cards.
 
  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by BubblegumDimension: Cycles can use the two old AMD cards in the dust bin MacPro to render with the full feature set?
not really it uses the CPU but it's still quick to render to the picture viewer. You can have the GPU render it but it's slower.Viewport preview is good too but I have no idea what to benchmark it with. Sure it would be amazing with Nvidia cards.
 
  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by rsquires: I use Cycles 4D and it produces terrific fast results even on my Mac Pro Dustbin. The new denoise function is really terrific for reducing noise and by balancing this with iterations of the scene samples you can get a nice fast render. In contrast and rather disappointingly Pro Render just seems to be very very noisy even with a huge amount of iterations.

It would be great if someone could chime in on what they feel are good settings for Pro Render ( yes I know every scene is different) but more general things like what is a base for offline iterations. For instance we have the default setting as 100. For final rendering should this be set to 500 or 1000 or are these figures way too much with little benefit to the final picture quality. How does anti aliasing affect the iterations too.

Again I know every scene is different and the above tips are really handy to know, but I guess I am looking for advice on whether my old machine is up to the task with Pro Render (probably not I guess) and if I need to dedicate some funds to new AMD hardware to really get the best from it.
Hi
Thats exatly the same impression i get from ProRender too. I also use Cycles and its much faster noise-free. Im working on new PC with a GeForce GTX 1070 and a GTX 1080.
Cheers
 
  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by rsquires: Pro Render just seems to be very very noisy even with a huge amount of iterations.
That would be an accurate description.
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  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by imashination: That would be an accurate description.
Makes it seem then like a not-ready for prime time feature? I suppose the only reason for including it is to get us over the learning curve so future more useful iterations of the engine can slide more easily into existing pipelines?
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  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by GruvDOne: Makes it seem then like a not-ready for prime time feature? I suppose the only reason for including it is to get us over the learning curve so future more useful iterations of the engine can slide more easily into existing pipelines?
this is basicly our thinking with releasing prorender now. we have been very open with the fact that the first version is not going to be a full production renderer, but its capable enough for everyone to get used to it while we cram in all the missing stuff. follow Christophs tips and you should get some nice renders
(i cant stress this enough: forget the colour channel exists and instead use a difuse base layer as the new colour channel and use the new preset light)
 
  09 September 2017
Originally Posted by theglenster: this is basicly our thinking with releasing prorender now. we have been very open with the fact that the first version is not going to be a full production renderer, but its capable enough for everyone to get used to it while we cram in all the missing stuff.

Hi,

does that mean, that we will see all the missing parts in iterations of future point-updates? Or do we have to wait the hole year for r20 to see any development (like volumes and mulitpasses)? The redshift-alpha was great in terms of constant updates. Every other week there were new things to discover or at least some fixed bugs.
I do not really see the benefit to learn a new render-engine now, when i have to wait a hole year to use it. Plz do not get me wrong. My initial tests with Prorender are very promising. I like the ease of use and the look of the (still very noisy) results. And i like the idea to have everything working nicely together under one roof.

bye e
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  10 October 2017
Originally Posted by theglenster: this is basicly our thinking with releasing prorender now. we have been very open with the fact that the first version is not going to be a full production renderer, but its capable enough for everyone to get used to it while we cram in all the missing stuff.
That is complete bullshit, typical sales mislead. Maxon had to entice MSA and upgrades so half-assed a "feature" by incorporating an incomplete pile of shit. Posting rendered images up to the release that while looking good were absent of honest render performance stats and when upon release nobody can seem to render a cube, plane and hdri with acceptable results in less than a minute.

How is this release even considered capable when the slow physical render outpaces this GPU renderer. In fact how is this performance remotely acceptable when the Blender implementation blows Maxon's implementation out of the water.

What makes me more angry than paying an upgrade with few significant enhancements, is the incorporation of a steaming pile of crap that Maxon will now likely defer to R20 and expect another payment to then get what you say "cramming in all the missing stuff" which equates to "releasing an actual working product".

Even Autodesk releases better technology previews.... just fucking sad.
 
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