I still hate the Windoze World

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  04 April 2017
I still hate the Windoze World

I sometimes order nootropics from sources in India. Sometimes it works out OK...sometimes not. It always feels...skanky and unsettling.

I feel the same way about Windows. I owned two Windows computers back in the 90s and they were troublesome. But in the past two years the two PC systems I've built have given me spasms of hurt.

Issues?
-Viruses and malware (not porn induced!)

-A microsoft auto-installation of Windows 10 (without my permission) over top of my Windows 8.1 install. The installation was not only coerced it led to an incomplete OS and I ultimately was forced to purchase a new OS install disc.

-4 months later I wake up one morning and windows won't boot. After googling around I saw I had no option but to do a complete re-install

-Boot and sleep issues that widely afflict some Asus MBs...

-Nonexistent Asus tech support

-Then today a render slave suddenly stops rendering. I go back to inspect the problem and the system is starting and shutting itself off cyclically. I finally get the BIOS up and now it doesn't see my boot drive!

I've learned more about mother board error codes and system registries than I care to think about.

It's really a shame that Apple put me in this situation with product decisions and pricing...because Apple systems are pure trouble-free bliss.

Last edited by IceCaveMan : 04 April 2017 at 11:15 PM.
 
  04 April 2017
I hope Apple give you a new Mac Pro, because I grow tired of hearing fan boys harp on about how bad they have it with "Windoze". And yes, I get to call you a fanboy, if you mock a generation of workstations that are 1) 2-3x more powerful than your trash can and 2) Perfectly stable if you know how to diagnose any potential issues.

Though saying that, I'm sorry for your troubles.

I'm personally very comfortable with PC's, always have been; Whether it's building a workstation from start to finish, subsequent upgrades, adjusting the bios, overclocking, you name it.

It wasn't always smooth sailing, which is why I know my way around the hardware.

I think you Mac guys have always had it too easy; If it breaks, take it to an Apple store for repairs.

I've had to adopt the "I broke it", "I also built it", "Guess I'm gonna have to be the one to fix it", attitude.

For Viruses, I trust a combination of Avast, SpyBot and a good pop up blocker (all free), and I haven't seen a Virus in many years.

For Bios issues, stay away from sub par boards. I have an $800 dual socket board and I had one flaw when I flashed the bios. Yet it's also a motherboard with a 3 switches, providing 3 fresh bios' for various configurations.

In fact with all issues PC related, do lots of research before you buy.

Asus suck and I agree, they do have awful tech support. I've bought laptops, monitors, motherboards from them over the years, but no more. They're an impossible company who sell a lot of crap.

I know very little about Windows 8 or Windows 10. Windows 7 works and works well for me.

The bottom line is, the speed gains in scene creation, scene navigation and rendering, are all worth the minor headaches you may end up addressing, but if you shop carefully and build well, you can end up with having a great experience on this side of the fence.
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  04 April 2017
Originally Posted by ThePriest: I think you Mac guys have always had it too easy; If it breaks, take it to an Apple store for repairs.


I've only had to do that once in 25 years of owning macs, and that was an iMac which was recalled for a free repair due to a dodgy graphics card.

Just sayin'
 
  04 April 2017
I have more Windows machine than Macs here(and planning to add more in the near future), that being said I totally feel the frustration of the OP. In the same life span of my recent OSX system, PCs gives me a long list of issues that take me countless hours and days to solve(even if using them only for basic tasks), and that's beside the time needed for ordinary management(antivirus, disk cleaning ecc). Yes, PC are cheap and fast, but when I factor in the cost of my time to solve issues probably Macs are even cheaper. Before call me a fanboy(and that will be ridicolous for someone who own 5x more PC than Macs) someone here shared my same experience:
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...it-thought.html
I already know how this thread will go, it should be closed right away because fanboys(both OSX and Windows) will come in full force to discuss with childish attitude what's best. Personally I prefer to invest my time better, working on both system, enjoying the respective strength and learn how to live with respective limitations/issues.
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  04 April 2017
Originally Posted by ThePriest: I hope Apple give you a new Mac Pro, because I grow tired of hearing fan boys harp on about how bad they have it with "Windoze". And yes, I get to call you a fanboy, if you mock a generation of workstations that are 1) 2-3x more powerful than your trash can and 2) Perfectly stable if you know how to diagnose any potential issues.

Though saying that, I'm sorry for your troubles.

I'm personally very comfortable with PC's, always have been; Whether it's building a workstation from start to finish, subsequent upgrades, adjusting the bios, overclocking, you name it.

It wasn't always smooth sailing, which is why I know my way around the hardware.

I think you Mac guys have always had it too easy; If it breaks, take it to an Apple store for repairs.

I've had to adopt the "I broke it", "I also built it", "Guess I'm gonna have to be the one to fix it", attitude.

For Viruses, I trust a combination of Avast, SpyBot and a good pop up blocker (all free), and I haven't seen a Virus in many years.

For Bios issues, stay away from sub par boards. I have an $800 dual socket board and I had one flaw when I flashed the bios. Yet it's also a motherboard with a 3 switches, providing 3 fresh bios' for various configurations.

In fact with all issues PC related, do lots of research before you buy.

Asus suck and I agree, they do have awful tech support. I've bought laptops, monitors, motherboards from them over the years, but no more. They're an impossible company who sell a lot of crap.

I know very little about Windows 8 or Windows 10. Windows 7 works and works well for me.

The bottom line is, the speed gains in scene creation, scene navigation and rendering, are all worth the minor headaches you may end up addressing, but if you shop carefully and build well, you can end up with having a great experience on this side of the fence.


since you're obviously offended by his post you might be a fan boy as well, just on the other side of the fence i don't really want to get in to that discussion, but i just have to say that there's no such thing as having it too easy when it comes to hardware and operation systems.

of course you're right, a proper windows machine is much faster than any mac nowadays, and apple machines are overpriced. but having a machine that just works is also of high value to me. i'm a mac user since the mid 90s, my first mac was a nicotine-yellow 7600, and here's a list of problems i had since over 20 years now:

1. suddendly the motherboard of my G4 died after 4 years of use.
2. a harddrive on my macpro cheesegrater died once.
3. had to re-adjust the trackpad click-mechanism on my macbook pro.
4. the harddrive on my macbook made funny noises, so i built in an ssd.

that's all. in 22 years. the only thing i couldn't fix by myself was the motherboard issue on my G4. only had minor issues with some releases of OSX, not really worth talking about. believe it or not, that's what's making me hold off to the switch for as long as i can.

and yes, i know there's a lot of people that had much more problems with macs than me... maybe i just had luck with all my machines.

what's so surprising about long time mac users NOT knowing their ways around windows and the hardware of their builds as good as a long term windows user? or getting frustrated because they're just not used to having those issues?

everyone should use what makes them happy and what they are comfortable with. the whole X is better than Y discussion is useless, it always has been. and if a mac user gets frustrated by the issues he's confronted with suddenly that also should be ok. no need to be offended.

peace.
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  04 April 2017
My only contribution to this thread (I use Mac and Windows).

If Apple is not updating the MacPro this discussion will be over for ever.

odo
 
  04 April 2017
Originally Posted by ThePriest: I hope Apple give you a new Mac Pro, because I grow tired of hearing fan boys harp on about how bad they have it with "Windoze". And yes, I get to call you a fanboy, if you mock a generation of workstations that are 1) 2-3x more powerful than your trash can and 2) Perfectly stable if you know how to diagnose any potential issues.


Who is mocking anything!? I never bought a trashcan. For my 3d I moved to PC.... bought the parts and built the systems. I've fixed everything on my own. It still sucks to have so much time under the hood instead of creating. I might go six months or a year between issues...and during those stretches I like Windows. But when things go wrong...and they inevitably do far more often...it bites hard.

Originally Posted by ThePriest: I think you Mac guys have always had it too easy; If it breaks, take it to an Apple store for repairs.

Your comments remind me of a buddy I knew in the late 1980's. He mocked me because I used a computer with a mouse. Real computer guys don't need mice, he told me. It's fu-fu. For babies.


Originally Posted by ThePriest: The bottom line is, the speed gains in scene creation, scene navigation and rendering, are all worth the minor headaches you may end up addressing, but if you shop carefully and build well, you can end up with having a great experience on this side of the fence.


I agree...though the headaches are often not minor.

I actually had a lot less problems when I was using Windows 8.1. Microsoft's coercive upgrading and Windows 10 have caused half my problems.
 
  04 April 2017
In the context of this thread I guess this is interesting news:

http://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
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  04 April 2017
I've been on DOS/Windows since the very, very early days.

Everything DOS/Windows had tech issues that needed constant solving - not seeing printers, not recognizing the SoundBlaster 16 card, not being able to free enough working RAM, not being able to talk to a 2800 baud modem, not recognizing supposed plug-and-play peripherals correctly and so on - until around when Windows 2000 arrived.

Things went well until Windows 7. Win 7 was a very good OS. It just worked. Then things went downhill again.

Who caused it? Current Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella in my opinion.

He's a cloud-computing guy - he came from that division at MS - who probably thinks that "the days of the desktop are numbered".

After all, Android has just overtaken Windows as the most used OS on the internet and is growing and growing.

So expect Microsoft to put more and more emphasis on "the cloud" and "software as a service" type computing.

Just like Apple neglected the desktop, MS will probably neglect Windows and desktop computing in general.

Of course Windows itself may be on the way out - nobody I know likes Windows 10 very much, even very old Windows users.

There may be a day 3 - 5 years from now where people start to use Android as their desktop OS.

You'd actually buy an Android PC, not a Windows PC. For many people, that would actually work just fine.

All you phone apps would work on that PC, but you'd also have more serious mouse-and-keyboard desktop apps.

If Apple and Microsoft fuck up just a little more, Linux and Android will probably dominate the OS market 10 years from now.

The biggest complaint with Windows 10 in the user community is its spyware-like qualities and telemetry habits - there is currenty NO way at all to tell if your Win 10 user data is secure or private. Win 10 seems to be sending data all over the place whenever it wants to.

So that's what I would expect from Windows in the next few years - more and more emphasis on cloud and SAAS.
 
  04 April 2017
Originally Posted by skeebertus: I've been on DOS/Windows since the very, very early days.

Everything DOS/Windows had tech issues that needed constant solving - not seeing printers, not recognizing the SoundBlaster 16 card, not being able to free enough working RAM, not being able to talk to a 2800 baud modem, not recognizing supposed plug-and-play peripherals correctly and so on - until around when Windows 2000 arrived.

Things went well until Windows 7. Win 7 was a very good OS. It just worked. Then things went downhill again.

Who caused it? Current Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella in my opinion.

He's a cloud-computing guy - he came from that division at MS - who probably thinks that "the days of the desktop are numbered".

After all, Android has just overtaken Windows as the most used OS on the internet and is growing and growing.

So expect Microsoft to put more and more emphasis on "the cloud" and "software as a service" type computing.

Just like Apple neglected the desktop, MS will probably neglect Windows and desktop computing in general.

Of course Windows itself may be on the way out - nobody I know likes Windows 10 very much, even very old Windows users.

There may be a day 3 - 5 years from now where people start to use Android as their desktop OS.

You'd actually buy an Android PC, not a Windows PC. For many people, that would actually work just fine.

All you phone apps would work on that PC, but you'd also have more serious mouse-and-keyboard desktop apps.

If Apple and Microsoft fuck up just a little more, Linux and Android will probably dominate the OS market 10 years from now.

The biggest complaint with Windows 10 in the user community is its spyware-like qualities and telemetry habits - there is currenty NO way at all to tell if your Win 10 user data is secure or private. Win 10 seems to be sending data all over the place whenever it wants to.

So that's what I would expect from Windows in the next few years - more and more emphasis on cloud and SAAS.


Good points, all around. I'd probably take the effort to switch to Linux if Maxon and Adobe ran on it.
 
  04 April 2017
Quote: -Viruses and malware (not porn induced!)


Sure about that ?

I can't remember when i have had a virus or a malware in Windows.


It is true that Microsoft have been attempting to destroy Windows culture as we know and trying to build a rent cloud model.
I am still in W7 and i don't know if i will follow in next version or just jump to Linux

Last edited by Bullit : 04 April 2017 at 05:17 PM.
 
  04 April 2017
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: -Boot and sleep issues that widely afflict some Asus MBs...
-Nonexistent Asus tech support
-Then today a render slave suddenly stops rendering. I go back to inspect the problem and the system is starting and shutting itself off cyclically. I finally get the BIOS up and now it doesn't see my boot drive!
I've learned more about mother board error codes and system registries than I care to think about.
It's really a shame that Apple put me in this situation with product decisions and pricing...because Apple systems are pure trouble-free bliss.


I guess you've been used to Apple supplying hardware and OS as one package. Asus and Microsoft are unrelated different companies. It sounds like you have hardware problems, not Windows problems.

I'd happily give the Apple OS a spin if I could build my own Mac, but it's not that easily done. That's how they keep the prices so high.

Complete Windows OS failures (not hardware faults) are fairly rare, but most savvy users use free software such as Macrium Reflect to make regular disk image backups. In the unlikely event of a catastrophic fail, you can whack your most recent image back on in 10 minutes.
 
  04 April 2017
Originally Posted by Bullit: Sure about that ?

I can't remember when i have had a virus or a malware in Windows.


I don't pirate software and I do porn only on my Mac. ;-). I also employ pretty safe computing.

I suspect I got the malware when I downloaded a tool a guy was offering to properly and fully uninstall the Asus suite... after installation of the suite had failed half way through. Get on the Asus forums and you'll know that whole saga. (among the numerous Asus muck-ups that have plagued me).

I sure do wish I'd bought Asrock MB s for my two systems.
 
  04 April 2017
New Mac pros from Apple - some time in the future, yay. No news on nVidia. Might be OK if Maxon pulls a rabbit out of their hat with ProRender, but again, I'm stuck waiting till September if Maxon tells us if its going anywhere. And then I suspect people will be stuck with whatever Apple has available in the likely one GPU slot in this mythical "announced-but-not-available" new Mac Pro.

I've owned a ton of Macs and PCs. I have equal problems with both. I have also had absolutely no problems with some models with both brands - my 2008 MacBook Pro still works fine. My 2009 Dell precision tower had zero (and I mean zero) issues. Even after I upgraded the processor myself.

My current PC - a 2600k that is self built - is having problems after 6 years of running overlocked to over 4 GHz after I replaced a power supply, I suspect it's the mobo. My G5 computer was noisy, slow, and died 1 week after Apple care expired. My current iMac has magically erased my system drive twice this year.

Computers have problems. Don't buy one brand expecting none. This leads to disappointment.

Last edited by Venkman : 04 April 2017 at 10:30 PM.
 
  04 April 2017
I've always been PC also love win10.
While I have found the updates annoying 1 time when I was low on SSDspace, I have never found anything about it that makes me wish I was using win7.
The biggest annoyance with the win platform is drivers...there are so many combos between hardware and software that are largely untested...this is where the headache lays.
On mac its a closed platform with limited hardware combos and drivers verfied by apple.
With a PC if you get the correct combo it's smooth sailing for years, just like Mac...you definitely have to put time into your PC if you build, but there are also very reputable companies doing custom builds too.
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