Devil man

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Old 06 June 2012   #16
The primary thing standing out for me is the poor lighting by Gallery standards.

Suggestion 1; You could give the devil a rim light using the flame behind the door as a source of light (I don't mean literally use the flames to generate the light, but to light him as though the flames light was illuminating him from behind.)

Suggestion 2; The light appears to all be generated from a single light source, a direction light? pointed down from above with a spotlight pointed straight down on the character; making it all look really flat.

Before fixing your light I think you need to think about the shots composition before you invest time into fixing the lights - as the galleries standards can be very demanding.

Here's my attempt at rearranging your scene for a nicer (IMO, there are folks much better than me at this, so I wont be surprised if someone spits at my Paint over/suggestion haha) composition.

Its a little crude, but I think you get what I'm trying to do. The light thats illuminating the character could do with some fall-off, as his guts completely blown out atm - or are you using a lens on the render-cam? Adjust the exposure a bit :]

My composition is using subtle lines made by the stairs/arch to guide the eyes back to the character when they wonder off, you've the light from the fire behind his head bringing focus back to right near his eyes which is arguably the most important part of a character - then the rim light helps pop him out of the scene, making sure he remains the dominant feature in the render.

A real good book for this sort of thing is 'The Photographers Eye', covers a lot of composition techniques which are all about framing, which obviously is just as relevant to us as it is photographers

Goodluck dude, loved this last time i looked, and love it still
Old 06 June 2012   #17
Hi MrJuzah,

Really many thanks for your advise, it is really a very helping answer.

I'll go in that direction and repost it on the WIP to get again your feed back.

Thanks again,
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Old 06 June 2012   #18
Hi tobbew,

Thanks also for your feed back, very helpful also.

I continue on your advises.

Thanks, I love to learn new things !

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Old 06 June 2012   #19
I have been thinking about this image and your character. I hope I did not come through as awfully harsh, if so it was totally unintended I was just tired when I read the thread. I think your image has potential. I agree that the lighting suggestion you got could be a good possibility to improve the lighting, but I think the biggest thing to improve the image first would be to try to show your character in a character defining moment, so the personality is clearly visible, almost more depicting a feeling or theme more than just the mere image of the character itself.

When I think about the cartoonish / stylized images I have really liked I recall especially this one :

I found this thread about the and thought you might find it interesting as for the gallery:

Your character reminds me somewhat of this short I watched: . It's good. If you watch it, for each character, which pose or moment would you rather take to introduce the character with a still only? Why? (I guess the only association being the cute look, in spite of being the devil.)

I apologize that I do not have anything more direct ideas to give you. I don't think I have understood enough of your creative vision for your character. How would you describe your character? What's his personality like?

edit: Also another thought you could consider - people often use shadows cast from things not visible in the scene (behind the camera) to make the world larger. Perhaps from some barren trees or cliffs since this seems to be an outdoor shot(?).

Last edited by tobbew : 06 June 2012 at 10:54 PM.
Old 06 June 2012   #20

No problem tobbew, thanks for your feed-back.

Here is another version, I have try to follow your advises. What did you think about it ?

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Old 06 June 2012   #21

Another version, better ?

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Old 06 June 2012   #22
You have got clearer colors and more contrast on the last one. I personally prefer that one, but that might be just me. I think the paintover you got was really good, both for framing and rim lighting.

If compared side by side I think your original pose was better. It was quite neutral, but it was using the whole body. As for the new pose, it does not involve the whole body yet. And generally poses in cartoons are exagerrated., If you were really pointing at something that strongly, you'd probably turn your side slightly towards it and also rotate your shoulders slightly, and turn your head a little. It's also unclear what he is pointing at, and the facial expression gives no clue as to what he's thinking about what he's seing. (This link is not a suggested pose, but shows the rest of the body being in on it: ) Considering the animation you did I guess you might take a look at this:

May I suggest borrowing an understanding friend for some puppeteering with a camera to try different poses and compositions? Or a fullbody mirror (but it's more difficult to take a photo of oneself.) A videocamera connected to a monitor so you can see the current picture while filming could also be an option to explore different poses.

Last edited by tobbew : 06 June 2012 at 09:39 AM.
Old 06 June 2012   #23
I got a possible story idea for an image, in case you want it. You really don't have to consider it unless you really like it. What if your cute devil is the big devils son, and the door leads to his WIP-prison. So say this child devil was feeling lonely and wanted someone to play with and the prisoners tricked him to open the door for them, but then they just ran away. Then feeling abandoned and foolish he is also discovered by his father and getting yelled at. The picture could show the door slightly opened, the little devil feeling ashamed, looking down, hiding the keys behind his back and fiddlnig with his fingers and perhaps only the shadow of his much larger father pointing and yelling at him is visible in the scene, cast partly on him but mostly on the backdrop.

Of course you really don't have to take this one, if you have a vision for a story for the image it will help us understand what you wish to convey and it can heavily affect the choices in lighting and composition. Perhaps you already have one of your own, and if so please share it. The more you can communicate your idea for the image the more we can help you. And the clearer the idea is for you, probably the better you'll be able to make it yourself as well.

If I try to look at the current pose I'd assume he is guarding that door. Is that the story? Why is he guarding it? What's behind it? From whom? It looks like the door leads to a fire, or is it the way to freedom? Or is it a nightclub?

Last edited by tobbew : 06 June 2012 at 11:23 AM.
Old 06 June 2012   #24

Wow thanks tobbew, there are many very good ideas in your comment.

I'll not do everything ;-)

I have rework all and get back to the previous pose.

What did you think about these one ?

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Last edited by adoracion3D : 07 July 2012 at 12:33 PM.
Old 07 July 2012   #25
Much nicer Jeff!

I think the cropping could do with tightening up a bit maybe, other than that maybe just make the final composited image appear less clean! Try build up a bit of atmosphere maybe?

Looking great dude, if you keep improving it, its gotta end up in the gallery at some point :P
Old 07 July 2012   #26

Thanks for the comment, here is the lastest version:

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Old 07 July 2012   #27
I have posted this version, still refused...?

I m really disapointed by this forum...

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Last edited by adoracion3D : 07 July 2012 at 04:18 PM.
Old 07 July 2012   #28
Disappointed by the forum, why?

As for the showcase gallery I think it's important to understand that is has an art focus, if it had been a photography, would it have been accepted to a showcase gallery of a photography site?

I'd expect you to have the skills to reach the gallery, should you really want to. Of course, the question should be if that's really so important in itself. I think you should not focus on that. If you focus on creating an image which is really the best you could do I think it will get there. My personal opinion is that the model of the character and the textures is good enough and suitable for the style. I think it's the assembled image that's not. I'm not a judge for what pictures get's to enter the gallery, so I'm just talking from my own opinion.

I tried staying quite for a couple of days, hoping you'd get some help from someone else instead, but it seems to just have been silence instead. I still think the main problem to start with is having a clear idea of the image. When I look at this image I still have this feeling of "take a look at this cartoon character I did, I modeled and textured a background too". If you have a clear idea for the picture you can try everything from lighting and pose to atmosphere and so as to whether it improves regarding the idea. You still haven't answered any questions as for your idea of this character, is he supposed to be cute, kind, evil? He looks cute and kind, if that's not the intention then there are definitely things you should consider changing. Is the idea "hell guardian" as on your deviant art gallery? Then, if the idea is to make him look evil, that can effect which pose, camera angle, lighting would best help show this. If the idea is for him to be good and cute then there are lot's of things you could do to improve that message in the image. The general look and pose seem to me very neutral and tells me nothing of him or his personality. When you have not communicated a lot of your creative vision for the picture it is difficult to try to help you. I personally think if you had more of a creative vision for the picture you'd probably get a lot of ideas from that yourself anyway. Who is he? How can you show it best in a picure? What is the absolutely best portrait of him that could be taken?
Old 07 July 2012   #29
ahh, I did the same as you Tobbew.

To be honest when I read you were dissapointed with the forum I lost interest in helping - If you lose heart in improving your work, nobody else is going to want to either.

It's a good model, but I agree with Tobbew - You've the skill to get there, but the image as a whole needs to be worked on and really polished to the best of your ability; That's what you should be aiming for, not 'I want it to be just good enough to get in the gallery', you want it to be the best you could do :P

It may be worth doing as suggested a few posts back and making the scene a bit more dynamic, a little diorama or something - As you've 2 types of images in the showcase; Pure Eye Candy with Kajillions of polys and intricate detail, or Quirky images that tell a story. I think with this you'd be aiming at the 2nd category.

Currently the atmosphere is purple, and doesn't really seem like its a part of the scene. You've a roaring fire behind the door, you could reveal some cracks in the mortar, have smoke gushing out, scorched brickwork - Variety, give the environment a history/story of its own, make it look lived in.

What else...Camera lenses, Depth of Field, experiment with post production
Old 07 July 2012   #30

Many thanks for your comments, sorry if I have hurt you with mine it was really not my intention.

I was just llittle bit deceived with this new refusal as I thought that the image was good (mainly due to your good advises).

So I will continue get back on it in a few days to rework it.

Thanks again for you time !

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