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  07 July 2009
Originally Posted by zokana: Hey, very nice updates!! I would choose the version with the larger eyes(200) to go on - itís definitely closer to the reference.
Here one more photo, showing the large Toda eyes:

The 200 one i still thing the eye is some kinds of strange but i agree it should be a little bit larger than the 199 one. but i think 199 one the eye shape is more close to reference.But i will take your advice and make it first

A: i also thing that it is a little bit high compare to the reference
B: yes, i agree and i have tried to fix it b4 by adding light at that direction, but still get a strange shadow. anyway i will find some way to fix it
C: i need some time to make it,
i prefer move the chin back and resize the neck
but what is the meaning of "getting the chin too short (itís already quite short)"?did you mean it is too short at z axis
D:i think it is a difficult part, in fact i get confuse with the slop of the nose, the fore of the nose should be upper and move fore according to the reference but the side view reference is enough(the yellow clothes and close the eye one).
E: i have remove the smile as you tell me but haven't get a better/ normal one yet

thanks a lot zokana , you point it at the photo which i can figure it easier and thanks for your reference photo
  07 July 2009
Originally Posted by tastyUdon: Hi,

I also think that there should be a little flesh under her chin. if you feel the area under your chin you'll find that there is a soft area of flesh. Adding that should get rid of that odd look on her chin on the 3/4 view. Also I think her neck might be a little to wide on the z, if not then it might be because of the lack of flesh under that area. See you next post.

thanks for your advice and you give me lots of encouragement
  07 July 2009
Originally Posted by ianlai: ...but what is the meaning of "getting the chin too short (itís already quite short)"?did you mean it is too short at z axis...

yes. wishing you good work!
  07 July 2009

side 86


the strange shadow i found that it was cause by the back light but i cannot turn it off so add a light to soften the shadow
  07 July 2009
Good to see you making changes so fast and very well.

The main issues left for the moment are the jaw line and the chin. I think you arenít using the best reference photo for the profile (chin in side view). The one youíve posted shows her with the head stretched forward, giving the chin a very pointy form. I would use this one for the outlines of the chin in side view (the chin is rounded much more):

About that strange shadow in front of the ears: itís probably a problem with the shape and not with the lighting.

Next suggestions on no.202, together with the best frontal photo iíve found of her without wide angle distorsion (the blue grid is just there to see the proportional differences):

[paintover removed]

A: i guess you have chosen her for this 3d project, because you find her cute looking. So give her those cute large eyes, she has on most of the photos. Enlarge y only. Her left eye is even larger, but i wouldnít care much about that for the moment.
B: Iím not shure about this, but I think the outer corner of the eye is a little bit higher.
C: (the main problem) the jawline should be much higher and softer.
D: The neck is too wide (x, and possibly z too), and has that strangely sharp curve (i think youíll need to reshape the area below the ears to correct that).
E: (just minor issues) wings of the nose might be slightly too low, and top curve of the upper lip too sharp.
And: (as already mentioned) reshape the chin line in profile.

Anh here some more pics (in case you donít have them already):

Showing her in profile:

Some pics showing the shape of the face nicely:
this two especially good:

Do you have a fix date for the final presentation?

Last edited by zokana : 10 October 2009 at 12:08 AM. Reason: img removed
  07 July 2009
i have a big question is that how to define which one is suffer from wide angle distortion?
this really important. Just by experience? or the general human proportion ? I have suffered a lot from since i don't know much about photograph.

for the strange shadow, did u mean the shape of the concave ?

A.i reference the eye that is not very large is some photo,but most of them are large. i can make it a bit larger (y+)
yes you are right about the left eye, but i just do it symmetry right now for convenience so just handle it later as you said.

B i agree with u, i have notice it. But i make it lower since I have compare it to other human model and it really higher a little bit, i'm afraid it is too strange.

C,D,E i will fix it

thanks for your suggestions and the reference , all of them are useful

PS. you are great,you can find her no smile photo without open the mouth, it is rare.Most of them open the mouth a little bit without smile(the reference you give me at the previous post, the blue background front view one).

there is no fix date, just a self project and A.S.A.P. i want

Last edited by ianlai : 07 July 2009 at 08:19 PM.
  07 July 2009
corner of the eyes:
i think the eyes are most important for the typical look of a face, and you should follow exactly what you see. I personally hate Japanese fashion takes, when they retouche Asian eyes to give them a European look (in postwork or with make-up). It looks mostly just odd. Those cat-eyes are part of the special Torda look. (just my opinion...)

ďstrange shapeĒ:
yes i meant the concave shape. Check also the frontal view no.220: there seems to be an unnatural front border of the ears when connecting to the head...

distorsions in wide angle photos:
Itís a big problem indeed and it needs experience with photographs (please forget ďgeneral human proportionsĒ for this project). Wide angle and zoom lenses tend also to other kind of distortions (aberrations) a 3D software canít fake (as far as i know). You will always need a good eye for proportions.

You can have a wide angle shot on your 3D background and try to get the same focal length and the same viewing angle with one of your cameras, which you keep untouched after having it finally adjusted. While you work with an other camera you can switch back anytime to the other one. (but don't be frustrated by not getting the very same view)

I personally rarely use this kind of modeling on a photo (except when having a blueprint), and prefer a previously arranged set of photographs in the background (plus additional photos on the desk, desktop, or a second screen). Of course I compare the shape by arranging my work over a photo from time to time, but what counts is the feel I have, when watching a face - which Iím trying to get also with the model.

btw, if you have a photo you wished to know the focal length used, you can post it (but especially with portraits itís very difficult to guess, sometimes just impossible)

PS: oh, i forgot to post these:
two other front views with closed lips g

Last edited by zokana : 07 July 2009 at 10:15 PM.
  07 July 2009

side 86

i make the nose tip lower since it is quite high a the front
the eye corner upper and eye bigger
thanks for your help zokana
  07 July 2009
Good update! In front view the likeness is coming.

In front view only a view suggestions:

[paintover removed]

A: jaw line is still a little sharp cornered and somewhat too low (compared also to other ref photos)
B: nose mid looks slightly too narrow
C: i would do a little outward curve there (btw: will you add the lower area of the neck?

After having the proportions in xy more or less correct now to the harder part, the side view:

[paintover removed]

D: (i think the main problem in side view) The whole upper part of the face looks pushed back too much (compared to several photos). I would bring everything forward, incl the upper lip area.
E: Chin is much better, but still somewhat pointy (should be more curved there, as the photo shows right beside). Neck is possibly still too large in the z-axis.
F: I have seen that part being quite flat especially on older photos of her, but I think that area should be more defined (like in the upper photo beside, showing her in the water), i would make it more concave.
G: not very important with hair, but a little push there wouldnít be bad.
H: forehead more domed (see photo beside)
I: Her eyeballs could be evtl more in front, pushing the whole area around there forward (quite extreme on some profile photos).
And: check the front part of the cheek (beside the nose) on the photos. itís more rounded.

Nose and lips appear somewhat low, compared to the photos, but in front view the proportions look ok. I think this should be checked again later, when the upper area of the face is moved frwd.

Keep up the energy!

Last edited by zokana : 10 October 2009 at 12:09 AM. Reason: imgs removed
  07 July 2009
you give me lots of energy , you know , if u don't give me opinion, i must not do it
forget to ask

The lens distortion
does the photo will be some how center part feel bigger? like the nose
any characteristic about that?

How to check with photo
i know it is experience, but any tips about that?
like the grid u use before
i have very little art experience
C: yes, sadly to say i have the body part. i separate two part and attached later( i thing i just concern on the head part)

D: i don't know something? do you think the chin/lower jaw is too short at z -axis? so the whole face need to move forward

I: the eyeball position at z axis i have checked with the right hand corner one, if the eyeball move forward , the distance between eye and the face will it be too short?

Last edited by ianlai : 08 August 2009 at 04:04 AM.
  08 August 2009

side 89

the head i move front , i think you mean the face is too short (z axis)
the eye i move forward a little bit
  08 August 2009
The more I look at Erika photos, the more I find her cute. Haha.

Now I am official a fan of Erika .

Anyway, Keep up the good work.
My WIP Thread:
Next Gen Lara Croft 3D Model Fanart
  08 August 2009
The changes you did are all very good (except the enlargement of the back of the head). Youíre really going into the right direction! Chin profile is quite perfect and the definition of the jaw line looks convincing. Forget what i said about the eyeballs and eye area pushing forward - it was just the impression viewing some profile photos, but I think it isnít important for the moment.

This time i did a paintover with the following changes:
A: cheek outline below the eyes curved out more
B: nostril more flat
C: nose raised (y++). Nose look already shorter with the newest changes you did , but nose and lips are definitely still too low compared to the pictures. I really think they have to be moved upwrd (you are working quite fast, and i think itís worth to do a version like this).
D: lips raised (a little less than the nose), and moved slightly frwd. Upper lip resized in y-axis (higher)
E: chin outline curved more in. Her well rounded chin on the photos could be better defined (as far as i can say with this lighting).
F: backside of the head shorter - itís too long now in z-axis (Erikaís back of the head isnít long at all).
G: ears smaller and less high. (i didnít compare it with pictures - itís just a feel)
H: eyebrows raised

[paintover removed]

About distortions: there are no convincing methods to correct perspective distortion in a portrait! This kind of distortions are radial and not to be corrected without knowing z-axis values. I recommend to read carefully this page:

I was looking for some webpages about distortions especially in portraits, but didnít find any. So I did a quick overview for you about the basics:

Last edited by zokana : 10 October 2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason: img removed
  08 August 2009
C,D is really a painful area, i haven't touch the nose, just move the whole face forward as you said b4( i think the face may be a little bit short )
move the nose and lip upward, the front view will be too short as u said b4, and the chin will be too long

the perspective distortion picture is really excellent, useful and simple

i think may be my camera setting is something wrong, i use a really large focal length (300mm something, i need to check it later) and long distance between camera and object so that the camera like the front view or user view

a silly question, how to do the paintover or others tip to check to check with the photo ?
i have tried to use PS overlay the reference on the render to check(vice versa) , but seems can not figure out anything??

thanks you very much for your useful information, all of them are useful

Last edited by ianlai : 08 August 2009 at 06:06 PM.
  08 August 2009
Originally Posted by PKD: The more I look at Erika photos, the more I find her cute. Haha.

Now I am official a fan of Erika .

Anyway, Keep up the good work.

you need to see some of her movie
the first i saw her on Death Note movie. She is amazingly cute when i saw her at the first sight. how come that beautiful and cute girl come
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