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  07 July 2009
Originally Posted by Airflow: I agree, those are guidelines, she may well have one ear lower than the other, or other peculiar traits. Its good work, just work with your reference either on-screen or on another monitor so you can constantly check, also use Photoshop overlays, your render over her photo.
My only crit would be the ear angle and the weight of sss, most people use too much sss, its is a very subtle thing.

ear angle ? do you mean the ear is visible too much?
the weight of SSS ? i cannot get actually what you mean, but the red subdermal part at the ear in fact i use a lower intensity to make clear the SSS effect, this may what you mean the weight of SSS
  07 July 2009
Here the paintover as promised. Not perfect at all of course, but showing the corrections I would do for the moment, together with the protocol of the changes. The very last step(resizing the lower area) might be slightly overdone. It's possible that eyes and eyebrows should be positioned even lower. You will see that by comparing your model with the photos in the same viewing angle.

And work with PS layers (as Airflow mentioned): open the render of each new version in PS, create new layers and try to correct the areas you are not satisfied with (as done with this paintover). So you'll get a very exact forkflow. Best would be to render in the very same viewing angle as the photo was taken.


[paintover removed]

Last edited by zokana : 10 October 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason: img removed
  07 July 2009
thanks , u are really quick
but have you seen the update at page 1?
i have this question because the paint over obvious is come from page 2 196 and i think you are quite busy and spend your time to help me, so you may miss it
(i am afraid if you think i am impolite, i really sorry about that but i don't have any meaning)
i don't know if your suggestion come from which picture
although the update at page 1 is still not the pear-shaped
and of course i know both need to be improved

Last edited by ianlai : 07 July 2009 at 08:56 PM.
  07 July 2009
Youíre right: the paintover was done on no.196. I have seen no.197, but I think it isnít better than no.196. Headform is worse.
  07 July 2009

ok than your comment is for 196? then i should ignore the 197

just feel a great frustration .197 that one , i don't know i compare the proportion between the reference photo and made it again
  07 July 2009
thank you , hope you can see a better one later
see you soon
  07 July 2009
Originally Posted by ianlai: ok than your comment is for 196? then i should ignore the 197

just feel a great frustrated , 197 that one , i don't know i compare the proportion between the reference photo and made it again

Donít be frustrated - doing a portrait is very difficult. (Try to use the suggestions about the workflow, the use of PS, and about rendering in the same viewing angle as the photo was made) Keep up the very good work!

PS: May be you should use also your impression about seeing a certain face. Photos show a face in various shapes, but the general impression is most important to recognize someone.

Last edited by zokana : 07 July 2009 at 09:27 PM.
  07 July 2009
I felt somewhat bad about just ignoring your last update, and i really wanted to be shure about my suggestions. I painted quickly some hair on the paintover(196) to check if any likeness is there (a little more make-up and more eyebrows were added).

I'm quite shure you'll get the right look soon and a beautiful portrait.
  07 July 2009
Quote: I felt somewhat bad about just ignoring your last update, and i really wanted to be shure about my suggestions. I painted quickly some hair on the paintover(196) to check if any likeness is there (a little more make-up and more eyebrows were added).

thanks, you are really a nice guy ( i think you are really a good boyfriend 2 after i see your painting, just a feeling ) and give me lot of comment
here is the update, i just link it because it is not a good one
i only change the skull part first, so ignore the eye nose and mouth at this moment
i just want to sure the skull (outline) is good first and i have confuse about point 12 you suggested , if i just rescaled the lower part X, it will be quite strange?

  07 July 2009
yes, good work, top of the skull is better. The widest part of the head should be slightly below the eyes.

Yesterday I did some 'Toda research', and found some frontal views of the lady. I wasn't that wrong about the headform except her jawline, which is higher (even more V-shaped).

here you can see the jaw line: g

to see the headform here some better pics:
lovely smile - nose looks large caused by the wide angle lens, and jaw looks wider, because of the wide smile, but check the vertical position of the jaw and the pear-shaped face!

best to see the headform is this one:

looking forward to see your improvements!

btw: is it possible to see your next update also from the side?
  07 July 2009
i am surprised that you do that research i am really really glad.
in fact i don't know how the camera/lens affect the shape, so always get confused about that
i will take your reference and advice .
thanks again i will post the side later/tomorrow, but it is not good
hope u not mind
  07 July 2009


the side

it's too large so i post the link
side reference

the 199 is the original eye and 200 is the larger eye (x+)
just confusing which is better?(both are not good?)

Last edited by ianlai : 05 May 2010 at 01:17 PM.
  07 July 2009

I'm liking the progress you've been making here. However her ear really looks too high; it might be caused by the area near the head being too high up, it usually lines up to the corner of the eye. Also I don't think the recession of the eye socket around the nose bridge is that deep at least for an asian. Can't wait to see your next upload.
  07 July 2009
Hey, very nice updates!! I would choose the version with the larger eyes(200) to go on - itís definitely closer to the reference.
Here one more photo, showing the large Toda eyes:


[paintover removed]

A: smaller! You enlarged the ears dramaticely (to match proportional theories, i guess), but now they look too large and too high indeed. I would resize the upper part of the ears only, without moving the ears. So youíll get them lower and smaller. To see the ears here a photo (showing young Toda, but ears are the same. Check the proportions of the ears).
B: inward (x-). Try also to aliminate that strange shadow in front of the ears. The connection between cheek and ears should look almost flat.
C: (this is a hard one) chin is too much in front, but you canít move it back without getting the chin too short (itís already quite short). Youíll need to move the whole rest of the head forward (without changing the headshape). An other solution would be to move the chin back and resize the neck (z-).
D: move fore (z+) and upwrd (y++, also the lips, and especially the nose). The nose is even lower now, which isnít a good idea. The shape of the nose seems to be ok, but Erika has a cute little nose (see also the very last photo youíve posted) Distance btw nose and upper lip is slightly too small.
E: fuller. Check the shape beside of the lips on the photos.
And a remark about the lips: as I said already, I would eliminate that strange Mona Lisa smile (meaning: artificial and stiff smile) for the moment. Give her first those full sensual lips she has. When youíve got the perfect Toda face, you can think about the expression (a little smile is quickly done).

larger version of the photo used above:
and an other side view (stretching the neck somewhat frwd):


Last edited by zokana : 10 October 2009 at 12:05 AM. Reason: img removed
  07 July 2009

I also think that there should be a little flesh under her chin. if you feel the area under your chin you'll find that there is a soft area of flesh. Adding that should get rid of that odd look on her chin on the 3/4 view. Also I think her neck might be a little to wide on the z, if not then it might be because of the lack of flesh under that area. See you next post.
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