WIP Card Challenge - Red Joker

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  05 May 2013
I was afraid you might react that way. I was trying to be as diplomatic and polite as possible while still getting my point across but that clearly isn't going to work. This forum has seen many "defensive amateurs" that really weren't interested in taking advice. Why are you even here? There are far more accomplished artists in the 3D WIP section who gladly take advice whenever it is given and do so courteously. Take a look at Hossein Diba's "Gollum" thread as an example of how to respectfully receive advice. Claiming that yours is only one of two threads that are true "WIP"s is extraordinarily arrogant. We are all here trying to improve and learn from one another. You do not appear to be striving for either of those. Unsubscribed.
  05 May 2013
you are putting your work into a critiquing forum...please expect your work to get critiqued. And let me tell you, your attitude isn't helping anything here. Others are offering good advice that, if you want to learn and grow in this industry, you need to listen to others and not get so defensive about your work.

That being said, I agree with what the previous comments said, your anatomy is all wrong. It doesn't matter if you are going for exaggerated, the base proportions and anatomy still have to be well thought out and executed. The face doesn't look right either. I would do a lot more studying of references (both realistic and cartoonish) to get an idea that even cartoonish/exaggerated characters still need to be based off of existing forms.

I am not a character modeling expert, but I can have a look around for some good references today if you would think that would help.
WIP 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
  05 May 2013
I am, of course being defensive.
I went into this challenge because I never have the ability to stick with the larger chalaenges here, as my work has a tendency to to interfere. I constantly try new ways to work, and as a hobbyist who has been studying this for over 10 year, I watch the forums to learn from them.
One thing I have learned in the near 10 years I have been a member here, is that there are MANY ways to accomplish goals. Now I have heard many times my proportions are off, and that I can't even THINK of doing an exagerated character unless I start with knowing exactly where everything must lie and use references.
I have been told my proportions are way off, but instead of saying, The legs are a bit too long, the arms seem a little short, the nose is too big, I get a blanket "Start over right"
I have loaded the reference posted at first, with my model in a full front view. (Everything I have posted until now has been perspective)
Looking at it, I can see my legs are slightly long for the body, by less than a half a head. The arms are slightly short for the body, by about half a head. The body is visibly narrower than the reference, prolly by about 20%.
The armpit is also rather high, but in this reference pic the armpit is not really shown, what we see is where the arm starts to leave the side of the body. (which was wider than mine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg refview1.jpg (47.4 KB, 33 views)
  05 May 2013
Here is the same model, superimposed on another reference, one of my standards.
Same problems, legs slightly long, arms slightly short, but a bit less out of proportion in THIS reference than the one posted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Secondref.jpg (50.8 KB, 28 views)
  05 May 2013
Bit of a delay there...
Last reference check, this is against a female anime character reference I use
often. (Yes, The legs are longer proprotionately on females, and the hips higher.)
Well, the legs are still a bit long, the arms are now actually a little long themselves.
The knees are too low now, but that matches with the lower hips my male has.
All in all, the difference in proportions of my model (done by eye with NO references) are well within the range of charactriture, and in fact, in the range of the diffence in classical styles between normal (7/12 heads high) and heroic (9 heads high)
I am not saying it's perfect. In fact, obviously I need longer arms to match the longer legs. But not by that much I think.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AnimeFemaleRef.jpg (37.0 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by MythBred : 05 May 2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: forget pictyure
  05 May 2013
Well proportions are only part of the issues, but that would be a place to start. Everything on the character is just kind of formless. Its like you started with a box and extruded where arms and legs go and then threw a mesh smooth on it, it just doesn't have any definition. Its all too soft and shapeless.

There are issues with materials/textures and lighting as well but maybe you aren't focusing on that quite yet.
WIP 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
  05 May 2013
Hmmm ...

Interesting responses that you are giving to people who are trying to help you with your image. I think the users, who have provided you with feedback, understand what artistic style and creative expression are. I think what they're trying to say is that the "style" (if you're going to use that word as a crutch) of your image is lacking in appeal. This maybe due to the weird proportions and artistic direction that you are taking with the image.

I don't want to be too brutal because you're our only 3D artist currently in the Challenge, but maybe you should step back from your image a bit and look at it from a different perspective before dismissing the advice given by your peers.

Unless the "style" you are going for is "entry level modeller", there are many things you could improve to make the character and the image more appealing to the audience. No offense intended and believe me I could do no better. However, if more than one person was telling me that something seemed odd in my image, I'd want to take another approach to it than arguing that the image is exactly as intended.

Remember, we're all here to improve our craft. Dismissing helpful opinions does not accomplish that. I hope you take this critique well and it doesn't discourage you from continuing with the challenge.
  05 May 2013
Well, here are the latest updates.
The beard is a placeholder, I am going to have to sculpt better guides, I am not as used the the hair system as I would like.
I am trying to convey an aged beard, with grey mixed in.
The unsmoothness near the temples has already been fixed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FoolBearded_profile.jpg (45.0 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg FoolBearded_sized.jpg (50.0 KB, 28 views)
  05 May 2013
Current work on getting a hair style, I have removed the hat from the main model so I can adjust it to allow a lack of pokethru, although I expect to have composite with a hairless render to get the best results. The ears have poke thru, but less than I expected, I will adjust those shortly.
The beard looks like it needs adjustment as well, it runs too far back on the jaw, I expect I prolly will need to bring it to meet the sideburns, which also will need adjusting.

Next thing I expect to work on is UVing the head and trying to get a bump map done, not something I expect to go well, I try to avoid painting as much as I can, I am poor at it, I tend to work pixel by pixel.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FoolHairyFrontQuarter.jpg (49.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg FoolHairySide.jpg (45.7 KB, 19 views)
  06 June 2013
becoming a better artist

just to let you know that, after reading a bit your answers, you may find the workshop "becoming a better artist", here in cgsociety, really good for you.


I did it, and it changed everything on me. The workshop is very very very good, excellent, I hardly imagine a better one in internet. And it also talks about stylization and that kind of stuff.

About your joker, let me tell you that you had a nice idea and it looks good, but it can look much better; of course is just a WIP, but keep on and do apreciate what the others tell you, because you ll be amazed how nice may look at the end. Nice work.
(sorry for my english)
  07 July 2013
I apologize for my absence, my store had two inspections this week and instead of being away from home for 55 hours a week I was doing around 75. Not a lot of free time.

This is where I have gotten, been working on texturing the suit, at least in the upper side, I am prolly going to be sticking with a simple portrait with what time I have left.

Tzarate, thank you for the link to the workshop, it looks great, but it is WAY out of my budget. I could do it in about 6 months IF I save at max and IF nothing happens to suck my funds dry. (not a likely scenario)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fool-Jul14-Adj.jpg (96.0 KB, 21 views)
  07 July 2013
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