ATE SuperHind Mk.III / Mil Mi-24

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  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by LuisNieves: Your model looks great. It doesn't seem to have any reflection issue, I would like to check the unsmooth wire frame if possible. I'm not completely familiar with the aircraft, would you share some refs to provide feedback? This will be for sure a hardcore portfolio piece when done.

Keep it up!

Thanks. Which parts in particular would you like to see unsmoothed? I'm not sure what you mean about references, do you mean photographs of the actual aircraft?

Originally Posted by tolansky: great job buddy, I hope one day reach that level.

Thanks. It just takes effort and observational skills, and anyone can get those with enough time.

Originally Posted by ACantarel: Man that level of detail That's going to be the most detailed Mi-24 model ever! you are by far more patient than I am.
Which part are you working on atm? I am dealing with the landing gear which is kinda annoying because there are barely photos showing the interior of the bay :-/

Looking forward to see more!

Cheers
Andre


Thanks André. I'm trying to get started on the rotor head. I've gathered some pretty decent references but man, there are a lot of parts in that thing - even tiny wires threaded through some of the nuts O_O. Seems like every time I take on a new part of this machine it just gets more complicated. You might be waiting a while to see some new stuff unless blocked out geometry is OK - don't want to bore people with the very early stages unless someone might find it useful to see the process.

After the Wimbledon final i'll try to throw myself back into this project.
 
  07 July 2013
For me it has always been interesting how other modelers progress in their work. So I would love too see any rough base shapes of your helicopter. Besides, you might get some handy advices from pros that could save you some time in the future.
P.S. Thank you for replying to my previous post.
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by AlexSarakapudaff: For me it has always been interesting how other modelers progress in their work. So I would love too see any rough base shapes of your helicopter. Besides, you might get some handy advices from pros that could save you some time in the future.
P.S. Thank you for replying to my previous post.


I'll give it a try with a few screenshots I made of the viewport. I have been trying to make a part of the rotor, working from the bottom up, using the rotorshaft as reference for size. I don't know the name of the part but from the looks of it it alters the pitch of the blades.

It's a very organic looking component with lots of curves and flats, and frankly at first I had little idea of how to build it. When dealing with complex objects I tend to try and construct a spline cage or at least use splines as guide lines to help construct the object around. Based on some measurements taken of one of the spokes I created a spline that had inflection points (corners, or significant changes in "flow" of the contours) that matched the photos of the object. Being that this object had five degree rotational symmetry, I cloned the spline radially to make a star shape, and then snapped a primitive object's vertices to the significant defining points of the splines to rough out some basic geometry.

From there I chamfered some edges to give them thickness and continued to work. Quickly realising that I was wasting a lot of effort multiplying edits five times, I detached one spoke and continued to refine that until I was satisfied with the result, before cloning and welding the spokes together.

There are still nuts and bolts to add to this piece but that's trivial compared with getting a handle on the underlying shape. I lack references for much of the rotor assembly so it may still end up looking crap, but we'll just have to see. A little creativity and scrutiny can go a long way.









It still needs tweaking of course.
 
  07 July 2013
the first picture has a piece made with lines for what you did?
the part that this ash (still in the first picture) this with only 5 sides and the second sides with several already?
you cant put everything?

sorry the questions is that I am learning to model, I wonder these techniques.

good modeling and thanks!
 
  07 July 2013
I rushed up some intermediate stages which might give you a better idea of how it progressed. The spline cage is a just a guide. It is easy to match splines to reference images of objects, and this allows me to make sure the polygon geometry matches up in terms of shape and volume. The intention (usually) is for the limit surface of a sub-d object to not project past the boundaries described by the spline cage. In this case, because the object is relatively simple, the splines only describe the final object in a crude way but it is enough to form a starting point. It might seem like a strange way to do it, as I arrived at this method on my own, but it works. There are probably much faster ways to do this but I like to work out my own solutions.





Hopefully that helps.
 
  07 July 2013
Ahh the lovely rotor head
That was a fun part to do. It looks so damn complex and confusing at first sight but in the end you obviously just have take care of a 1/5th of it. I still have to unwrap mine but once that is done I can take care of the rigging. The swash plate rigging is going to be interesting, still have to find out how to do that. I basically just want to have the pilot's controls as sliders and the whole rotor head behaves accordingly. Are you going to rig your rotor head too?

Looking forward to see the progress!

Cheers
Andre
 
  07 July 2013
Originally Posted by ACantarel: Ahh the lovely rotor head
That was a fun part to do. It looks so damn complex and confusing at first sight but in the end you obviously just have take care of a 1/5th of it. I still have to unwrap mine but once that is done I can take care of the rigging. The swash plate rigging is going to be interesting, still have to find out how to do that. I basically just want to have the pilot's controls as sliders and the whole rotor head behaves accordingly. Are you going to rig your rotor head too?

Looking forward to see the progress!

Cheers
Andre


Sounds like you just need to use wire parameters. I'll try to rig it, but at first i'll just try and get the modelling out of the way and position the parts in flight position (since I want to make renders primarily in the air). I thought you rigged the rotor head of the PAVE Hawk, is it not similar in operation?

Last edited by Telemachus : 07 July 2013 at 06:58 PM.
 
  07 July 2013
Very nice to see these sort of things. I would probably get confused with all those curves and just do a basic poly modeling starting with a simple plane and define shapes as I go on that one, but I see how they can be helpful. Often of course it is just what ever it is you are most comfortable with.
 
  07 July 2013
Yeah gonna wire the parameters, just have to wrap my head around the proper rigging of the entire hub. On the old Pave Hawk I just did a rig that works for certain states, this one should be the real thing
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by AlexSarakapudaff: Very nice to see these sort of things. I would probably get confused with all those curves and just do a basic poly modeling starting with a simple plane and define shapes as I go on that one, but I see how they can be helpful. Often of course it is just what ever it is you are most comfortable with.


My self-developed technique is probably slower that some but I started out years ago box-modelling and it hasn't failed me yet. It's hard to imagine that most of the objects you see on screen started out as cubes O_O.

Originally Posted by ACantarel: Yeah gonna wire the parameters, just have to wrap my head around the proper rigging of the entire hub. On the old Pave Hawk I just did a rig that works for certain states, this one should be the real thing


Good luck with that, though i'm sure you won't need it and will have it completed in a couple of minutes, based on your usual speed :P


Sorry for the lack of updates. I am not that good at cheer-leading my own thread lol. I've had a painful few weeks involving my wisdom teeth, and i've been a bit depressed because of my birthday coming up (today actually). Still no money or success, heh. Don't feel very motivated at the moment, but it'll pass. Anyway, I figured I might as well put up a small render of that thing I was making. There isn't much new to it. Sorry.

 
  08 August 2013
Happy birthday, and don't let things get you down!
__________________
 
  08 August 2013
Happy belated birthday!

The rotor head part looks good to me! I know the lack of motivation very well, just having a huge one right now But it helps not to think about the entire bird as a whole and what lies ahead. I broke it up into sub-assets which makes it easier to tackle it psychological wise and you quicker achieve the goals.
Yeah I really want to fully rig the thing properly. We'll see how well that goes haha.

Cheers
Andre
 
  08 August 2013
Amazing level of detail :D

Such attention to detail.

Have you seen what can be achieved with Zbrush these days ?

You can even have the poly flow built up automaticly.

Great work.
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by ThreeDeeRelic: Such attention to detail.

Have you seen what can be achieved with Zbrush these days ?

You can even have the poly flow built up automaticly.

Great work.


I have seen it, and I am a little envious of the ease with which some people turn out hard-surface work with it. There are some nice tools coming out soon for poly-modellers that will make things easier for us too, so i'm looking forward to being able to perform quick edits on a mesh while maintaining a nice topology. Being an old-fashioned polygon masher is hard, having to keep mesh-flow ever present in your mind, but if you do it long enough it starts to become intuitive.
 
  09 September 2013
Thanks André, i'll try to keep that in mind.

Well, i've been in a slump for some weeks but am trying to get back into a modelling frame of mind. Not much new to show for now but the next update will hopefully not take as long. The rotor is creeping along, discovering little bits to add, working my way up.


The little cone-shaped thing is a rubber boot that only appears on the Mi-24 type helicopters; on the Mi-8 it isn't present although they share almost identical rotor heads. The boot has seams from when it was moulded like many rubber parts. I counted thirty odd turns on that rod object in the photo, so it will have to do. Obviously the part it is screwed into conceals more turns, but I can't see those and lack the patience to find a photo of the parts disassembled. It probably doesn't matter anyway since they'll be invisible from the outside.

Once again, sorry for the lack of updates. I have been feeling a bit better lately so more should come.

Edit: I've overestimated the rod length by quite a bit. One of the perils of forgetting to correct for perspective >_<.

Last edited by Telemachus : 09 September 2013 at 01:24 PM.
 
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