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Old 08-16-2012, 04:33 AM   #1
Polaroid29
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Legend of a Yeti

Hey hey everybody. So I've submitted this to the stills gallery and it was rejected. I'm glad that the bar is set high, and I know it isn't the perfect image, but I'm not sure what needs to improve in order for it to be of the same quality.

It is my take on the Yeti tale, while trying to ground it in reality a little. Taking elements from different existing animals (gorilla, langur, eagle, goat, etc) and trying to have the character make sense. It is sculpted, textured, and rendered in Zbrush, then the passes were composited in Photoshop.

Any critiques or opinions would be greatly appreciated, so I know where my work needs the most improvement. Thanks!

 
Old 08-16-2012, 10:59 AM   #2
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Overall I like it. The immediate first glance impression is of goat, ape, bird. If you intended it to come across like that instead of an original character with just hints of real animals, then it works.

Don't fret too much if your work is rejected. It just means the judges preferred other works better on the day. Come back with another one later on and see how you fare.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply . I'm not really worried about it not actually being displayed in the gallery because it really isn't my end goal, but moreso that the work is considered not good enough to be displayed. I'm trying to constantly be progressing, so I'm just wondering where it can be improved so I don't make the same mistakes next time.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 08:22 PM   #4
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I really like your design and am surprised this got rejected. One of my first impressions is that the horns are too much like a bighorn sheep's. They are modeled nicely, but don't quite fit the feathered-ape thing you have going on (which is very cool, btw).

My guess about the gallery rejection would be lighting. The lighting on the character does not match the background, in brightness or in contrast. He looks like he is having his picture taken in front of a photo studio backdrop, with very bland & diffused front lighting. In snowy settings the light can become very flat and non-directional, but it's just a bit too non-directional here, and it removes a lot of the power and drama from the character.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:39 AM   #5
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I am not on the impression that an artwork will be rejected base on quality. After all, one of the reason to submit an artwork is to get CRITICS so as to improve.

There is a CGchoice gallery for top quality CG Artworks (incidentally via submitted still images gallery), for people who may just wanted to see only the top CG works.

If the admin are picky about which images should be even accepted base on perceived quality (beauty is subjective), then I will be very disappointed, & will personally write to the administrators of my disgust.

Last I checked, as long as the work is finished, & most parts (or all) of all the content in the image are original, & the image is within certain resolution, it will be accepted.

Could it be that the image is too small?

The background is weak sauce, that looked like a highly blurred image. but I do not think it is justifiable to reject base on this, as the focus is on the character, which look very good I must say.

Maybe you can write to the administers to see why your image is rejected.


EDIT: Ok, I did a search, & the rules have changed. I am disappointed with the new rule, but I digest.

All I can say is improve a little on the background, & maybe the lighting.

Cheers.
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Last edited by PKD : 08-18-2012 at 12:55 PM.
 
Old 08-29-2012, 04:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artbot
I really like your design and am surprised this got rejected. One of my first impressions is that the horns are too much like a bighorn sheep's. They are modeled nicely, but don't quite fit the feathered-ape thing you have going on (which is very cool, btw).

My guess about the gallery rejection would be lighting. The lighting on the character does not match the background, in brightness or in contrast. He looks like he is having his picture taken in front of a photo studio backdrop, with very bland & diffused front lighting. In snowy settings the light can become very flat and non-directional, but it's just a bit too non-directional here, and it removes a lot of the power and drama from the character.


Thanks for the kind words Artbot . I definitely did look at bighorn sheep for reference, as I thought the horns gave him a more regal, mysterious feeling. If they don't achieve that however, I'll have to rethink it. I do also see what you mean about the lighting, and I've pushed it as much as I can IMO without completely changing the snowy feel. Let me know if you feel it's any better

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKD
I am not on the impression that an artwork will be rejected base on quality. After all, one of the reason to submit an artwork is to get CRITICS so as to improve.

If the admin are picky about which images should be even accepted base on perceived quality (beauty is subjective), then I will be very disappointed, & will personally write to the administrators of my disgust.


I am okay with the 3d stills gallery having an acceptance standard, as it promotes being finished pieces of a higher quality, and there is still this forum for all WIP stuff and critiques. My beef is with how inconsistent and irrational their decisions/choices are. I've had work rejected where I totally understand where it went wrong, but then I will look through the accepted stills and find other images that are just a barely posed character in front of a really flat, gradient background or something like that.

Here is my new update. I cropped it to frame the character better, and tried to push some more interesting lighting.

 
Old 08-29-2012, 05:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaroid29
Thanks for the kind words Artbot . I definitely did look at bighorn sheep for reference, as I thought the horns gave him a more regal, mysterious feeling. If they don't achieve that however, I'll have to rethink it. I do also see what you mean about the lighting, and I've pushed it as much as I can IMO without completely changing the snowy feel. Let me know if you feel it's any better


I hear your frustration. Looking at it again, I like it even more. It still looks like a portrait in front of a backdrop, but that doesn't really bother me. Seems kind of amusing. But it's still not quite there in terms of a realistic scene. It lacks a mid-ground, and the blowing snow in the bg is absent from the creature area. Also, the sun looks to be just out of frame at the top of the bg, but he is front-lighted, while the mountains are sort of top/back-lighted. It creates a strong disconnect.

I don't honestly know why this was rejected, other than my guesses above. I've seen some pretty questionable images lately that were accepted, but this wouldn't have been one of them. But I just love how stoic he looks, and your modeling and design work are superb. Reminds me a lot of the monkeys from Baraka for some reason.
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:42 AM   #8
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Thanks again Artbot for the compliment and the crit, I appreciate 'em both! I completely see what you mean about the lighting and the background. The bland boring background and not too much snow around the Yeti's face area was actually a conscious decision on my part, as this was an exercise in character design/concepting, with the added of bonus of telling a story. My intention is for the viewer to barely even take a glance at the background, and instead focus their attention almost solely to the character, hence the dimly-lit, blurred simple background. However, if that is not how it is being viewed, and my composition is taking away from the illustration, then I need to rethink my methods! So thanks for bringing it up.

I'm gonna try to resubmit this new revision. If this one is rejected also, welp I'm not sure that their criteria is so accurate. Or maybe one of them just has an extreme vendetta against Polaroid cameras!?
 
Old 09-01-2012, 04:30 PM   #9
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Really nice work for me this one be sure top notch...best of luck Robert
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluidfxtd
Really nice work for me this one be sure top notch...best of luck Robert


Thanks fluidfxtd, I appreciate it unfortunately, the mods do not share your sentiments, as even my update was rejected. Hopefully one of them or anybody else can help me make my work better!

Last edited by Polaroid29 : 09-02-2012 at 08:41 PM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #11
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The Photoshop work (painting and compositing) is sloppy. You need to resolve the feather/fur and the way it flows on the creature. Right now it looks like a pelage-plumage combo.
–If you are going to use a vignette (lower right) to hid something—hid it, and not leave clear evidence that the ape-man’s body ends at the base of the pecs and where the shoulder would be.
–It would help if the creature had a developed shoulder. Right now the creature looks like a ram horned, ape-headed chicken.
–Lighting–The chimera looks like it’s at a Wal-Mart portrait photo shoot with an alps backdrop. I’d add some deep shading to the bust.

This 3d categorized piece is predominantly a 2d work, and as such the 2d work should reflect a little more care in it’s presentation.

Here’s a partial PO with some shadowing suggestions. I threw a shadow from a rock form over half of the creature to try to put him into the environment.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #12
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^
I agree with most of your comments. A little harsh in tone, but the poinst do valid.

Hopefully these points can be improve on.

Keep it up Polaroid29!
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadart
The Photoshop work (painting and compositing) is sloppy. You need to resolve the feather/fur and the way it flows on the creature. Right now it looks like a pelage-plumage combo.
–If you are going to use a vignette (lower right) to hid something—hid it, and not leave clear evidence that the ape-man’s body ends at the base of the pecs and where the shoulder would be.
–It would help if the creature had a developed shoulder. Right now the creature looks like a ram horned, ape-headed chicken.
–Lighting–The chimera looks like it’s at a Wal-Mart portrait photo shoot with an alps backdrop. I’d add some deep shading to the bust.

This 3d categorized piece is predominantly a 2d work, and as such the 2d work should reflect a little more care in it’s presentation.

Here’s a partial PO with some shadowing suggestions. I threw a shadow from a rock form over half of the creature to try to put him into the environment.


Hey hey Quadart, thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. This is all extremely helpful, but I am not understanding some of it and think I am being misunderstood on some of it also.

I totally agree about the lighting. I'm still getting used to rendering in Zbrush, so getting dynamic lighting without casting ugly shadows all over my character due to his accessories is something I didn't have time to fix, so I went with top left lighting and some rim light passes. Your zbrush renders are great, so I'll have to learn from ya somehow.

"This 3d categorized piece is predominantly a 2d work, and as such the 2d work should reflect a little more care in it’s presentation."

I'm not sure what you mean here. The entire thing is 3d except the photo background, pass compositing, and fine hairs. Even the base layer of the fur is completely sculpted and polypainted. I agree my photoshop work is not where it should be though, as I have focused much more on sculpting in my work than I have painting.

Also, thank you very much for taking the time to do a PO on my work. Though I think it looks really nice, I would have to steer away from it with this type of work because the entire piece is dedicated solely to creature concepting, and creating believable design while pursuing (possibly, maybe not so) fictitious characters. I left the background really plain for the same reason I wouldn't put a shadow covering the character; he should be the only focus. I just prefer putting him in an environment to sell his design, rather than a boring character sheet.

At the end of the day though, if "Right now the creature looks like a ram horned, ape-headed chicken." is the case, then the entire point of the piece has failed completely. You really feel that none of the elements of the creature work together and contribute to a unique or even slightly believable Yeti depiction?

I hope none of this comes off as stubborn or defensive, it's not meant to be at all. Just trying to learn
 
Old 09-10-2012, 01:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaroid29
At the end of the day though, if "Right now the creature looks like a ram horned, ape-headed chicken." is the case, then the entire point of the piece has failed completely. You really feel that none of the elements of the creature work together and contribute to a unique or even slightly believable Yeti depiction?

I generally like the concept of the head. The Gibbon-esk face has a human-like nobleness.

I just think the compositing, PS post work, needs work to seamlessly integrate the elements. The feather-fur looks like it is a patchwork of PS painted parts, even if polypainted mesh and painted texture on alpha masked planes (hence the predominantly 2d statement). There are a lot of messy artifacts and sharp edges, in the fur, that greatly diminish the quality of the piece and are distracting. The arm is not distinct and is flat, and again looks patched on in post. His somewhat armless appearance makes his feathered body look bird-like, IMO, (hence the chicken thing). The brown monochrome color of the horns looks like PS tinting of a grayscale image, making it look out of place (coupled with the odd blurring of the base of the one horn and the strange fog-over of the other one). I think the horns could use a little morphic uniqueness to distinguish them from looking like they came straight off the head of a Bighorn Sheep.

I like the concept, but feel its potential can be more fully realized to make a really strong work.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:39 PM   #15
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