Medieval Inn WIP

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01 January 2012   #16
model looks good

to me the textures just look a little bit too clean, I know it's supposed to be cartoony but looks shiny and new.
 
Old 01 January 2012   #17
This is looking great, but I agree with others that the textures are too clean. I think the stone foundation is still much too fine and orderly. Should be more like the examples someone posted of roughly interlocking stones. If you must use the brick texture you posted, it needs to have rougher edges around each brick and more rough noise on the faces.

Also, your wood beams on the roof and walls are too straight. From your wireframes, it looks like they have no subdivisions at all. On old buildings, the wood beams shrink and twist and warp a bit, and using long single polys makes them too "cg perfect". This may be a slightly exaggerated example, but look at the awesome warping, varied thicknesses, edge checks/cracks, imperfect joinery of this image.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Old 01 January 2012   #18
Originally Posted by Artbot: This is looking great, but I agree with others that the textures are too clean. I think the stone foundation is still much too fine and orderly. Should be more like the examples someone posted of roughly interlocking stones. If you must use the brick texture you posted, it needs to have rougher edges around each brick and more rough noise on the faces.

Also, your wood beams on the roof and walls are too straight. From your wireframes, it looks like they have no subdivisions at all. On old buildings, the wood beams shrink and twist and warp a bit, and using long single polys makes them too "cg perfect". This may be a slightly exaggerated example, but look at the awesome warping, varied thicknesses, edge checks/cracks, imperfect joinery of this image.


Thanks Artbot... excellent suggestion. Maybe I was being too worried about polycount. I will try to subdivise each large beams and tweak the shapes to make them look more imperfect. I will also try to make the textures look a bit less clean.

Stay tuned!
 
Old 01 January 2012   #19
Originally Posted by Kushy: model looks good

to me the textures just look a little bit too clean, I know it's supposed to be cartoony but looks shiny and new.



Thx Kushy, I will try to make the textures look a bit less clean and will update soon!
 
Old 01 January 2012   #20
Here is a close-up of the textures. I've added some filth and changed the wood texture. keep in mind this had to look semi-cartoony. Comments are welcomed.


Next step: add some subdivisions to the wood beams and slightly tweak their shapes to make them look more imperfect/cartoonish.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #21
Looking cool. An easy way to add dimension to cartoony stuff is to slightly bevel every edge, if you can afford the polys. It adds a lot and gives the eye a softer transition on the corners while not requiring multi-faced radii. Anther cartoony trick is when you are done, throw a FFD cage on it and tweak the proportions a bit, usually making it taper a bit toward the ground level.

Remember, constant-width beams are really visually uninteresting. Taper and warp them as much as you can, and make sure your joinery doesn't line up perfectly. There shouldn't be holes, but look again at the example image I posted earlier and see how the pieces sit against one another.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Old 02 February 2012   #22
Originally Posted by Artbot: Looking cool. An easy way to add dimension to cartoony stuff is to slightly bevel every edge, if you can afford the polys. It adds a lot and gives the eye a softer transition on the corners while not requiring multi-faced radii. Anther cartoony trick is when you are done, throw a FFD cage on it and tweak the proportions a bit, usually making it taper a bit toward the ground level.

Remember, constant-width beams are really visually uninteresting. Taper and warp them as much as you can, and make sure your joinery doesn't line up perfectly. There shouldn't be holes, but look again at the example image I posted earlier and see how the pieces sit against one another.


Your posts have been very helpful. I finished yesterday tweaking with all the beams... I only have to redo the UVs and I'll send an update. Maybe during the weekend cause I have tons of work.

Once I post the new renders, I'd love to have your opinion. Thanks again!
 
Old 02 February 2012   #23
Hi guys. Updated finished (finally). What I've done:

- Added the base again, but with the brick texture.
- Added subdivisions pretty much everywhere and played with the shapes to make it look more "imperfect", "cartoony" (based myself on Fable-type design).








I welcome your comments!

PS.: next step is to add some props to "dress" the scene.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #24
Great job! I think that looks so much better, don't you? The wonky beams really give it a cartoony quality and just make the building seem more "lively." Depending on how cartoony you want it to look, you can tweak it even more if needed (FFDs in Max do this really well). It really depends on your intended use for the final model. In general, when doing cartoony stuff, a good rule to follow is never use straight lines and always taper everything, no matter how little. Long lines that are perfectly straight look "unfinished" and very CG-ish, and almost never exist in the real world, cartoony or not. Look at any old building and you'll see warps and bends and sags just from the weight of the building over the years.

I think the stone base is still too perfect and regular, but passable. If you could have a few slightly skewed bricks with chipped corners and such, it would help. Just have to be careful to not create too distictive a pattern where the repeated tiles becomes instantly visible.

Might consider beveling the ends of the beams since the style overall is pretty refined, architecturally, but the big beam ends look a little raw. Also need to grub-up the textures a bit and this will be awesome.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Old 02 February 2012   #25
Thanks Artbot... your suggestions are just awesome. I do think it makes all the difference. Thanks!

I thought about tapering the whole thing but, I noticed the windows, doors and other things that should remain 'straight' got skewed with the rest so I wasn't sure what to do. What would you do? break down the model (detach stuff), taper the main building mesh, then re-attach the windows and position them?

So if I breakdown your comments:

- "I think the stone base is still too perfect and regular, but passable."
Here I presume you refer to the mesh. I could exaggerate the irregularities even more if you think I should.

- "If you could have a few slightly skewed bricks with chipped corners and such, it would help."
Here I presume you refer to the texture. I'll draw more irregularities and chipped corners.

- "Might consider beveling the ends of the beams"
Ok no prob.

- "Also need to grub-up the textures a bit"
Sorry english is my second language. Do you mean simply to improve overall?

If there's something I didn't understand correctly, lemme know! Thanks again!
 
Old 02 February 2012   #26
"Grub up the textures" means to add dirt. I'd also see if you can get a larger brick texture. I can see the tile on the short side with no windows.

The subdivision gave you the cartoon look, and I think that looks good.

I think that it's difficult to see how this should look in our minds without the environment or a similar example. What look are you trying to achieve?

Good work so far!
__________________
John Athayde
Meticulous | www.meticulous.com

Mesh Warping in Shake Macro
The Sandbox - all CG short film from 2005
 
Old 02 February 2012   #27
Originally Posted by phil7777: - "I think the stone base is still too perfect and regular, but passable."
Here I presume you refer to the mesh. I could exaggerate the irregularities even more if you think I should.


Yes, it's too perfectly square and true for what's likely a very old, perhaps poorly constructed building. I think a lot of that can be solved in the texture. When brick walls or foundations get old, they sink and all the lines tend to bend and sag a bit. Best thing is to look at some images on the web for examples, pick the look that works for your structure and incorporate it. But be careful - if you over-do it, or do it in an unnatural way, it could look bad. You might be able to just tweak a few of the bricks in your texture so they aren't so straightly aligned.

Originally Posted by phil7777: - "If you could have a few slightly skewed bricks with chipped corners and such, it would help."
Here I presume you refer to the texture. I'll draw more irregularities and chipped corners.


Yes, vary the texture a little more. Sometimes I use the trick of creating a "trashed" version of the same texture map (the bricks), then apply it to various faces with another map channel. This helps add to the varied, natural look and gives you a lot of control over where the damaged or worn areas appear. Since it's the same texture in size and placement, you simply add it to another channel, no re-UVing necessary. (Note that the "trashed" version has only patches of damage or weathering that are intended to show where there will be no abrupt texture changes.)

Originally Posted by phil7777: - "Might consider beveling the ends of the beams"
Ok no prob.


Again, refer to the Fable building example.

Originally Posted by phil7777: - "Also need to grub-up the textures a bit"
Sorry english is my second language. Do you mean simply to improve overall?


Yes, sorry, dirty them up. Not just with dirt, though, I mean with natural wear & tear. Cracks, dirt, water stains, peeling plaster, old paint, etc. Again, the Fable building nails this perfectly IMHO.

I'd also do something about the regularity of the wood texture you are using. Try adding a variation, maybe one with some knots in it, to break up those big, flat expanses of the horizontal beams. You can also use the same method described above with the alternate map/channel.

Be sure to put a little bend or sag in the sign bars, too.

As for the deforming or warping, that really depends on the final setting of the building. Is it alone or in a row? Is it shown close up or far away? Is the profile shape of the building important to the setting? So much of what goes into environmental models has to do with context: How will it be used? How will it be lighted? Do I have a texture limit? Will I be able to use texture channels if I'm exporting to an engine?

I'm not sure what you're building this for (a game engine, demo reel, etc.), but all of this has to be considered when building your model. You really need to clarify these boundaries when building sets or props for games. When you have a hard list of limits or requirements, then you can tweak your model to address each one as needed.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Old 02 February 2012   #28
Originally Posted by boboroshi: "Grub up the textures" means to add dirt. I'd also see if you can get a larger brick texture. I can see the tile on the short side with no windows.

The subdivision gave you the cartoon look, and I think that looks good.

I think that it's difficult to see how this should look in our minds without the environment or a similar example. What look are you trying to achieve?

Good work so far!


Thanks for your imput boboroshi! Sorry I was in the Bahamas for a week I couldn't answer. I'm guessing 'Fable' would be a good reference as what I'm trying to achieve as a design style.

Do you think I'm guetting close?
 
Old 02 February 2012   #29
Originally Posted by Artbot: Yes, it's too perfectly square and true for what's likely a very old, perhaps poorly constructed building. I think a lot of that can be solved in the texture. When brick walls or foundations get old, they sink and all the lines tend to bend and sag a bit. Best thing is to look at some images on the web for examples, pick the look that works for your structure and incorporate it. But be careful - if you over-do it, or do it in an unnatural way, it could look bad. You might be able to just tweak a few of the bricks in your texture so they aren't so straightly aligned.



Yes, vary the texture a little more. Sometimes I use the trick of creating a "trashed" version of the same texture map (the bricks), then apply it to various faces with another map channel. This helps add to the varied, natural look and gives you a lot of control over where the damaged or worn areas appear. Since it's the same texture in size and placement, you simply add it to another channel, no re-UVing necessary. (Note that the "trashed" version has only patches of damage or weathering that are intended to show where there will be no abrupt texture changes.)



Again, refer to the Fable building example.



Yes, sorry, dirty them up. Not just with dirt, though, I mean with natural wear & tear. Cracks, dirt, water stains, peeling plaster, old paint, etc. Again, the Fable building nails this perfectly IMHO.

I'd also do something about the regularity of the wood texture you are using. Try adding a variation, maybe one with some knots in it, to break up those big, flat expanses of the horizontal beams. You can also use the same method described above with the alternate map/channel.

Be sure to put a little bend or sag in the sign bars, too.

As for the deforming or warping, that really depends on the final setting of the building. Is it alone or in a row? Is it shown close up or far away? Is the profile shape of the building important to the setting? So much of what goes into environmental models has to do with context: How will it be used? How will it be lighted? Do I have a texture limit? Will I be able to use texture channels if I'm exporting to an engine?

I'm not sure what you're building this for (a game engine, demo reel, etc.), but all of this has to be considered when building your model. You really need to clarify these boundaries when building sets or props for games. When you have a hard list of limits or requirements, then you can tweak your model to address each one as needed.


To me, it's quite obvious you work in the field!

Sorry to take so much time answering, as I posted earlier, I was toasting myself under the Bahamas sun for a week.

I'll try to include most if not all of your suggestions in the next render. For your information, since I don't know how to use 3D engines (yet), the scene will not be exported into a 3D engine. I will most likely make a rendered animation directly from 3ds Max (unless you suggest something else). Furthermore, the goal is to make an game environment & prop demo reel, so no particular texture limit (next step will be to create a character demo reel).

The house will be used in a city scene, with other surrounding buildings. I guess the reference image you provided in an earlier post is a good reference for my ultimate goal.

Thanks again you rock!
 
Old 02 February 2012   #30
Originally Posted by phil7777: To me, it's quite obvious you work in the field!

Sorry to take so much time answering, as I posted earlier, I was toasting myself under the Bahamas sun for a week.

I'll try to include most if not all of your suggestions in the next render. For your information, since I don't know how to use 3D engines (yet), the scene will not be exported into a 3D engine. I will most likely make a rendered animation directly from 3ds Max (unless you suggest something else). Furthermore, the goal is to make an game environment & prop demo reel, so no particular texture limit (next step will be to create a character demo reel).

The house will be used in a city scene, with other surrounding buildings. I guess the reference image you provided in an earlier post is a good reference for my ultimate goal.

Thanks again you rock!


So jealous! I used to know what a vacation felt like.

But yeah, I've been at it for a few years. One thing I see a lot of in these WIP threads (and elsewhere) is people looking for absolute numbers when there really aren't any. Asking "How much texture memory should I use?" or "How many polys should a building be?" are impossible to answer since the context of the useage is so important. It's like asking "What kind of car should I buy?" There are hundreds to choose from and many of them have very different uses for different tasks. As an env. artist, it's your task to fit great looking assets into sometimes difficult parameters.

If this is for a pre-rendered demo reel, and you're seeking a job as an environment artist, I'd recommend looking at game assets and others' reels to see what's considered "standard" or at least close enough. Of course, if you're asked to build a "hero" building the main character will enter, it's obviously going to be built with differing polygon and texel densities than some far off background building. Important thing in a reel is to set appropriate limits, then document everything, like all the types of maps, etc., as well as poly counts.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.