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  10 October 2003
ok I read through some of this post and felt compelled to share my opinions on this topic.
I felt like Gnarly Cranium did in that I was self taught and picked up a few freelance gigs here and there and was aching to be around like minded individuals and learn from people who knew this stuff inside and out. HA!

I found out that the Art Institute near me had a certificate training thing and found out that my day job would help with the ed costs so I thought at the very leat I would make a few friends and walk away an overal more knowledgeable person. again HA!

The first instructor I had had the portfolio of a third grader and knew less about the subject than I did two years ago. When I complained and got another instructor he ended up knowing more but is a complete flake and can never seem to keep is word on anything. My fellow students are basically the egar college students that say "Kewl!" to any stupid video of a 3d sphere with a face poorly mapped to it.

Now there is nothing wrong with any of this for those of you who have money and time to burn but I'm 28 years old and have a family which basically means that I have neither. So what am I walking away with? a 3DS Max 5 Bible book that I barely read and the knowledge that the CG landscape at least in the midewest is PACKED with big talking flakes that have niether the talent nor the knowledge to make decent art let alone offer people the medium to getting a job in the field.
Jim Sim
  10 October 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Leigh
Oh, so CG isn't a "real" field?

Cg isnt a real field. Its a Hobby that most of us are lucky enough to work in. This backend of the entertainment industry isnt the Real world.

The real world is having your Masters Degree , doctors , ect.

I love cg , but a degree in cg is useless*.

People like Dennis Muren , or your equivalents are Business majors , as in REAL field. Then they take what they know and apply that to the medium.

I mean , if people have dreams of Working at ILM and Dreamworks , why not try and follow the steps that these people have done.

Getting a CG degree places you in a slot , you cant take your Maya certification to Microsoft or anywhere else when the industry is quiet for a while , as you could a Business Major.

But with a Business major , a good CG Demo Reel , and TALENT you hold more weight in the REAL world.

Its not thinking about your Future , when you lock yourself into an unstable field.

*I mean , this isnt to say that you cant get both.. so a cg degree alone is useless in my opinion.

Education is never useless.

- Will
  10 October 2003
WillJohn, I can't actually believe that you actually think CG doesn't qualify as a "real" career.

Perhaps you just have a very bizarre basis for comparison as to what is classified as "real" and what is not, or perhaps you have never actually worked in this industry and therefore have no real idea of what is involved in it (I see you are still pretty young).

Quote: Cg isnt a real field. Its a Hobby that most of us are lucky enough to work in.

CG pays my bills, and has done so for a few years now. I've worked in studios that are very "real" (I certainly didn't imagine them), for very "real" money (not Monopoly money), for very "real" people, and subsequently saw my work on a very "real" television and "real" cinema screens.

You can't deny an industries existence or worth simply because the people in it didn't get degrees in business (why study statistics and stuff when you are supposed to be pushing polys???).

Quote: This backend of the entertainment industry isnt the Real world.

It is a business, it makes money, it employs people and it requires skilled labour - how can it NOT be a real industry???

CG studios make a product - whether it's a film, tv commercials, broadcast branding, tv shows, etc. It's a product that has been essentially ordered/requested by a client/investor, and has subsequently been made and delivered. In this regard, CG is essentially no different from any other production industry.

On a side note, in my own experience business and creativity don't mix well. I don't think it's essential for CG artists to have business degrees - what's the point? In a studio environment you have managers, admin staff, etc who handle the business side.

Saying that CG isn't a real field is like saying that football isn't a sport.
  10 October 2003
Sir Eel: There are many good schools and many bad schools. Unfortunately you picked a bad school.

WillJohn: You are about to be pelted by a birage of angy post from cg people who dont consider the job that puts food on the table a "hobby." I'm just going to watch from the side lines.
"Have you ever just stared at it.......Marveled at its bee yooty?"
  10 October 2003
#1 ,

I love CG , its my life. Im just not Biased by it.

Its the way i Make money.

CG provides Jobs , and not really careers.

How many people here can say that they have multiple Year Contracts , with Health Benifits , a retirement package ,stock options.

#2 the 'buisness degree' was an Example of a versatile degree , which a CG degree isnt.

Because in life , you always dont get what you want. Most of you ont make it to be the biggest things in the cg industry , its just being realistic , and having a plan b.

As someone said earlier , hes 28 years old and has a family .. he doesnt have time to go back and forth from wasting time on a cg degree , not finding work , then having to get another degree to get some stability.

I myself am in a position where i have a Long Term cg career.


Everyone that does CG does it because they LOVE doing it. It is a hobby that I do , and that everyone does , because you get enjoyment out of it and pleasure , and that alone is worth it.

Its a Hobby that many do , that you can get paid to do , and put food on the table. And thats why i love it. You get paid to do your hobby.


Last edited by WillJohn : 10 October 2003 at 09:33 PM.
  10 October 2003
Quote: CG provides Jobs , and not really careers.

I agree to some extent, but high schoolers don't pick between walmart and pixar...

A career doesn't mean you have to work in the same place, it means you work in a field for more than just the money.
  10 October 2003
is it getting hot in here...?

this is a heated topic and one I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in,

first I'd have to say that being a cg artist is a credible and very plausible career (like others have said its no dream). Like most people, for me it started as a hobby and making money from what u love is probably the next best thing, that doesn't mean I haggle my warez like a man selling fake watches on the corner of the street because business is not my strong point, I depend on the quality of my work to speak where I can't, hence I have a portfolio. that I think is pretty much everybody who's tried to make a buck from doodling on a pc.

as for the comment that cg is not real I think I can see where u r coming from, its not an exploited industry because the people who work in it have trained for years to do what they do and that brings about a certain exclusivity and seperation to the rest of the business world, people who work in this industry can appreciate their work as well as their checks... (see where this is going...) There is no get rich quick scheme here, only lots of dedication and hard work. Perhaps in the "real world" these business practisings are unheard of, but the rest of us would like to think that doing what u love and makin money can go hand in hand.
  10 October 2003
i just wish it had better benifits @ these studios ,

I lucked out and have a steady gig getting a place off the ground.

But i mean , i got sick of freelancing really quick.. Going from place , to place , to place.

I just sat back and thought 'man do i really want to be hopping from place to place when im 30' and want to have a family , buy a home ect.

I just wish there was alot more stability.

- Will
  10 October 2003
hmm....since we're discussing hobby vs. career. Now...ART, as in fine arts...that was a "hobby" for me. I started drawing when I was a wee little thing and always dreamed of a career as an "artist". Bout the time I hit 15/16 I started to realize that my "hobby" was too likely to not get me very far. I looked at how I could best apply my artistic skills towards a "real" profession, and graphic art ended up being the solution. I worked with 2D graphics companies for a LONG time, and that's what has put food on the table thus far.

After a few years of 2D graphics, I got bored and started to think once again how I might apply my skills to yet another direction, towards a different, more creative, yet professional career. I ended up going 3D and I feel extremely fortunate that I had the opportunity to do so.

I have encorporated my artistic and also technical skills to produce a very well rounded skill set. I think a LOT of people these days hardly have the same amount of versatility that we do, which I believe makes us invaluable people. We haven't just learned CG, we've learned how to learn...on the fly even.

I'll also be completing my bachelor's of science at a university, so I also have a well rounded education. I gotta say, I feel that I'm just about in the best position I could possibly be in. For what opportunities I've personally been given, I feel very confident (and very lucky) that I've made the right decisions.

OH...and I don't in any way feel that anyone OWES me anything because of my degree, I volunteered to go the route I did knowing what the struggle would be, and I feel that my success thus far is a reward in itself. I bet a lot of others feel this way. I think some people are mistaking "pride" for "cockiness".

Let's assume that we are all equally as talented and dedicated: A degree of any sort is a great accomplishment! Also, I think people who haven't gone to school should be just as proud of themselves for having gotten where they are by any other method. I do appreciate these kinds of discussions as a way of giving people a heads up as to what to avoid when it comes to going to school OR teaching yourself, but how bout for some of us, we lay off the "I'm better than you" attitude ok? This forum is one way in which we are all learning in the same fashion. That is something we all have in common.


Last edited by polyester : 10 October 2003 at 10:29 PM.
  10 October 2003
"CG provides Jobs , and not really careers.

How many people here can say that they have multiple Year Contracts , with Health Benifits , a retirement package ,stock options.:

so basically cg jobs are no different from any art job by your standards, since almost every artist in history that i can think of did not work for just one company and one employer, so none of these people had careers? they were all just hobbyiest making their money doing a hobby?
  10 October 2003

Quote: I learned at home, and so did some of the other best guys I know out there. Its all about how dedicated you are, and how much you really want to susceed.

Yes, true VERY true! but the student today is INCESSANTLY reminded of the need to 'network', and act as a 'team player';

After all, in the work environment, he/she will need on average to lean over to his/her colleague's desk at LEAST up to twice a day to check file paths...can get pretty heavy on the 'ol communication skills

  10 October 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WillJohn
Cg isnt a real field. Its a Hobby that most of us are lucky enough to work in. This backend of the entertainment industry isnt the Real world.

/ cocks pistols next to cranium.

Nooo. YOu are NOT MY FATHER!

umm.. that's a shocking point of view. That plus your view that CG isn't a real career is pretty obtuse. I don't know what to make of this. I guess, working as a butcher and chopping meat, sweeping the floor and dragging out the garbage is REAL WoRLD. I guess being a lawyer or an account and getting fat and rich doing jobs that don't serve anybody but themselves is the real world. They're as real as you can get. Back end? I wonder what the guys at Pixar, Mill, ILM will have to say about that? Paul (?) Tippet is directing the next Starship Troopers. There's a definite line that can be crossed if you're good. I don't know. I HAVE FAITH.

/ crawls into fetal position.

See some of my work here!
  10 October 2003
Unhappy So what should i do?

i am currently studying classical animation and thinking to go sheridan four year degree.after reading this whole thread
four years+70000
well i better sleep
Modeler .Looking for job.
Online Portofilo
  10 October 2003
CG isn't a real career?? hmmmmm thats an interesting point...... Could be mostly true...

Its a very wierd biz. So I would agree with that comment. Its more art based, so therfore it's as much of a career as being a musican or a painter. good pay, but very uncertain future. Save your money...

But this biz leads us to many amazing places. I'm directing comericals and music videos now, and being a 3d aritst got me there. It opened the door a crack, and I jammed my foot into it. And doing 3D is still paying my bills now, so I would call that a career. A weird, yet amazing career.

thats what makes this biz so cool. That there are unlimited possiblities, and many doors yet to be opened if you have the will and the desire.

Last edited by Jackdeth : 10 October 2003 at 03:49 AM.
  10 October 2003
Re: So what should i do?

Quote: Originally posted by Day-Dreamer
i am currently studying classical animation and thinking to go sheridan four year degree.after reading this whole thread
four years+70000
well i better sleep

Who's paying for it first of all?

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