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Old 10 October 2003   #31
if it was up to me i wont go to school at all and learn by my self. but mum would be very sad if i do.
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Last edited by forflowers : 10 October 2003 at 01:15 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2003   #32
Everythign I say is a rehash of what was just said so please just skip mah posts - but I NEEED to get this out of me. This is in relation to a recent person who posted being fustrated with maya and school from a college in upstate new york. his life - unforetunately =| - is a perfect example of college bs. Yes they aren't in for monetary profit, but they're in for school profit. More people coming, bigger school, expanding, more money, more being spent...

First off school is fun actually. I'm stuck with meeting new people and learning and having a little fun. Have just a little social life, whatever of it you can find. Believe me its very useful to have someone to talk to and respond rather than wall and have it mock you

I go to U.T.

The program discription says I will learn how make video games flash animations blabhalbhjalhblbah. The program is technically an animation geared coursed (3d of course) but offers only one animation course. You know what I do when I go to class? I go online and read CGTalk and learn whatever I can, reading articles and all. The only help I get in CG is strangely enough (not the word I want to use but:0 its 9 am...) Figure Drawing class. He doesn't teach us the tools but rather the fundamentals and ideas. And not b lecturing but by making us do it. 3 hours of drawing is fun indeed

Ah its so sad in this animation class. There's so many in here just for a waste of time and it's sad. Granted our teacher however is a good animator and knows connections to nearby studios, but still it's sad, we sit here watching him figure thigns out by reading a manual much like we all do. I'm not saying this is fautl either, he's certified in Maya yet our school for no reason decided to use lightwave on macs, a system and program he and all of us aren't really skilled at. We're trying though.


most schoolsl ike this one are in it just for the business however. just for the money. please don't come into this field unless your trying. In one way, being an RPG fan that I am, we can say it's much like acquiring a profession in galaxies. It takes so much experience and there's MANY paths to it. Learn on your own, pay for your lessons, learn from others. Either way you all will use (NOT WASTE!) the same amount of time effort and sleepless nights either way you choose.

Erik Anderson got some tough responses to his post, but assuming a perfect situatons and no anolomies you can get basic fundamentals. But don't spend time thinking on what path to choose. Just do it!

i myself want to go to the school path and am tryign to stick to it as much as I can. Hired out of school? I'd rather stay and learn more but who knows my decision might change if it happens

Just work at it please. Schools like Ringling NYFilm SCAD Pratt Sheridan (sp?) are there for a reason, they're good at what they do. Univeristies (which is a unity of colleges for thsoe who don't know ) tend to be less effective, at least here, in art. Research - you might learn some things.

But like many others in here said - it's great to have osmeone to use and abuse for questions - you're paying for it. So use it to your advantage.


I feel sorr for all the kids in this class. I feel sorry for my Beginning Design class in which the teacher is out in the ozarks, so "involved" in art she ignores her class and doesn't get us involved. I feel sorry for this one guy whose a Graphic Design Major and is graduating this year. He found no internship and he knows dirt more than Illustrator.

I want to smack these people! There's more to life than partying!

I take MTV's (sigh) take on music learning for CG. A commericial about a girl at a 7th grade talent show playing a tuba (?). She's alright but still learning and everyone boos her. She responds saying she's actually doing somethign with her lif and not wasting time like the other kids.

I whole heartedly agree:\


Forgot to add too Please have patience!

Last edited by daraand : 10 October 2003 at 02:43 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2003   #33
Yea, it is too bad many parents are so closed minded
 
Old 10 October 2003   #34
Quote: Originally posted by agentJ
This is in relation to a recent person who posted being fustrated with maya and school from a college in upstate new york. his life - unforetunately =| - is a perfect example of college bs.


yes. true but if you followed that thread, you know as much that that chap didn't have realistic expectations - paying for CG school doesn't gurantee you a job (especially if you leave and aren't much good at the end of it ). He got a blasting from Lunatique (who was right, IMO). No clue about pay + No skills = guranteed misery.

There is a place for schools, sure they're out to make money, but if you're going to pay them, make sure you milk the instructors for their knowledge. You can't expect to be spoonfed while you're at school, your learning shouldn't be confinded to what they teach you, spend time away from class and investigate other stuff you could do. It's your time and YOUR money. I wish you guys would stop bagging out the school structure and take some resposibility for yourself. Agent J is right about what you get out of it.

NOT EVERYONE CAN GET AN INTERN POSITION AND NOT EVERYONE CAN LEARN BY THEMSELVES (go read the post by nino about self learning), it's a difficult process. Just because production experience is superbly valuable and valued, it doesn't make it any easier to come by.

There is a thread a couple of days back from a guy who asked "HOW MUCH EXPERIENCE IS EXPERIENCE". He's a hobbist who's done 3d work for 3-5 years and no firm will give him a job. So what to do? School and get proper skills, self learn and get no respect. (unless you're really really good) or just be in the right place at the right time.

This is not a science guys. Maybe Ed Harris should come in and post what he thinks. After all he wrote the book about getting a job. (Not a dig) I find all these pessimism depressing!
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Old 10 October 2003   #35
1. i like competing and at the same time working together with my classmates. gives me the drive to be better than my peer and i get to learn to work in a team.

2. my school got the facilities such as render farm, mocap, blue room etc which i can't afford on my own.

3. school helps me to build a network which is gonna be valuable to help me get a job later. from my teacher who already has connections in the industry to fellow students who might help me or I might be able to help later on.

4. i can get the help i need when i need it.

"nearest distance between point A and B is a straight line" and school helps me stay on that straight line by providing the abovementioned.

i did learn by myself before i went to school but it just took too long to get to where i want to be and time is more valuable than money for me so i invested in school (i still learn outside school though). the answer to whether it's worth it or not is up to me, school shows me the way but it's still up to me to drive myself there.

just a few thoughts...
 
Old 10 October 2003   #36
Quote: Originally posted by P_T
i did learn by myself before i went to school but it just took too long to get to where i want to be and time is more valuable than money for me so i invested in school (i still learn outside school though). the answer to whether it's worth it or not is up to me, school shows me the way but it's still up to me to drive myself there.

just a few thoughts...


I agree with P_T.

Sometimes learning on my own. I feel like I have lost track of the path that I'm on. I've recently gone back to school to get myself back on track. I'm actually going to focus on traditional skills before I get to 3d though (well I have 3d experience at home, and learning software was never that hard anyway so far). I also feel that having input from people in a good school can give you an edge or rather help sharpen an edge you may already have.

I also believe you need to be well rounded as well. I'm going for the degree because of this. Otherwise I would only be focusing on art, I've already learned alot in my Generad Ed classes this semester, my goal is learn as much as I can, I'm not going to waste my time or money and I don't want to be a technician, I want to be an artist.
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Old 10 October 2003   #37
i go to school to be surrounded by people like me, to learn FASTER and to have deadlines put on myslef to do the work as you learn.
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Old 10 October 2003   #38
Learnt a fair amount in the 3 years I spent at university. Well quite a lot actually, about a whole range of stuff.

But I've learnt a hell of a lot more since I started work. I think the key is being around other people who are more experienced than you, and having something specific to aim for.

University was kinda like that, except everyone's at sorta the same level, but I still learnt quite a lot from other people (especially the older students).

I guess if you can afford to go to school, college, university, whatever and dedicate yourself to doing CG (i.e. not have to work a crappy job all hours to support yourself), then it's definitely worth it.

Being around others who are knowledgable, especially if there's a bit of healthy competition, will make you progress faster than anything else.
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Old 10 October 2003   #39
I live with four roommates. One of them picked up a neat little card game(http://www.dylinglights.com/) and I figured I'd try to figure out how to play it. Two months later, after I'd picked up the book numerous times and just given up, one of them sits down and shows me in five minutes what I couldn't bring myself to learn in two months.

The same goes for school... I don't do well when teaching myself things... I learn far better when I have someone who knows what they're doing to show me what it is that I'm doing wrong...

Course I took was started by one of the traditional animation instructors at the college. It wasn't a full course, just a four month certificate course, but I learned more there than I have on my own over the course of a couple of years. Though it also helps that most of the instructors were doing this as a side job... my 3D animation, and game design teachers worked for a local game company, the editing and stuff(shoot me, I can't think of the proper word for what it was) teacher works at a local TV station, the 2D animation and film design instructor was one of the schools traditional animation instructors(the guy who did the course)...

It was a neat course... covered pretty much everything you'd want for "computer animation", not just 3D, or 2D, but the sound editing, film design, all that stuff. Though it didn't go into great detail on anything, it was a VERY good starting place... helped me get rid of most of my bad habits(though not all), and it taught me a bunch of stuff that I didn't even think about looking into when I was doing it myself, and far far quicker than if I was left on my own to do it.

And yes, some of the students were quite lazy(one girl kinda came in for two classes at the beginning, gave up and that was it), and some of them were very obsessive about doing well (like the guy who had a cot set up in the corner of the room so that he could stay to work on stuff overnight... yet was always late for class in the morning 'cause he was out for breakfast... =P). And there were the middle ground people, like me(though I attribute that to the fact that I'm a lazy ass... I may not be progressing quickly in my CG stuff, but I'm still progressing quicker in it than in anything else that I do, so it's not that I don't have the motivation for it, I just don't have motivation periot...) who did pretty well. But that's how most things work. I've had friends into it who just gave up because they never tried, and friends who excelled in it because it was what theydo well, same as in class.

Oh, and the course I took was at Algonquin College, in Ottawa(Or Nepean, or whatever...), in case anyone was curious, though that was two years ago(boy time flies when you're... not really doing much at all...), so I don't know if the course has changed at all now. It was in its experimental stages when I took it... *shrug*

Wait... did I have a point?
 
Old 10 October 2003   #40
so there you go, the last 6 posts above were pro school. Just wanted to emphaise this incase its missed. School can be good, I think knocking it on face value isn't really fair.
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Old 10 October 2003   #41
GreenGiant, some of your points are a little confusing, perhaps I'm missing your point...

How would going to school get you "proper skills" and self teaching get you "no respect."

It's not where your learned....but what you know. And that's not knocking it at face value. The reality is that most people don't even realize how lame thier schools were until it is too late.

I just hope people have more faith in themselves about finding the genius inside, then thinking some teacher will spoon feed the smarts into them.
 
Old 10 October 2003   #42
Quote: Originally posted by Jackdeth
GreenGiant, some of your points are a little confusing, perhaps I'm missing your point...

How would going to school get you "proper skills" and self teaching get you "no respect."

It's not where your learned....but what you know. And that's not knocking it at face value. The reality is that most people don't even realize how lame thier schools were until it is too late.

I just hope people have more faith in themselves about finding the genius inside, then thinking some teacher will spoon feed the smarts into them.


what you know (and this from sitting at home working on your 3d)doesn't mean jack shit in the end, IMO. It will never be as good as production skills; Go look at various demo reels done by the various artists who post them, I look at every single one I can. YOu can tell which ones have been schooled by their quality (and the fact that it say.. "xxx school". I have seen very few comparble work from non schooled individuals (and this is for people hoping to get into the industry, not a work demo reel); that said, a lot of the schooled stuff is bad as well. Hence, choose your school well. THat's not to say people who go it alone won't be able to but without a render farm at hand, experienced trouble shoots as/when needed (online is nice but never immediate). And for the ones hoping to get into the industry, the important thing is having that good demo reel. Again, something that being in a school affords you greater access/ease to achieve.

you must have completely missed my point about doing more than just taking the spoon feed.
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Old 10 October 2003   #43


This is the valley of the Jolly Green Giant
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Old 10 October 2003   #44
The best 3d artists that I have worked with didn't go to school. Thats not to say some of my best employess didn't go to school, but they didn't learn crap there. 99% of all of their skills came from after school. And calling school "production experience" I think is really way off the mark.

I think my sucess is a direct conflict to your opinion. I learned everything needed to survive in production at home. No teachers, mentors, or 3d buddies to help me out. Maybe people like having it easy these days. Maybe its the people that are stuck all alone (much more like being in production) that can dig in and figure out thier problems are more likely to be better artists. Or maybe its working with real artist in real companys that people fianlly find thier inner skill set. That has nothing to do with school. Where you start is only the tip of the iceberg....Its what you do with it that really matters...

Just because self taught people don't post this pics on this web site doesn't mean that they suck. I've never posted anything here ever, so thats not a fair way to judge things. Maybe students at a school like to show off more...who knows..

Last edited by Jackdeth : 10 October 2003 at 07:14 AM.
 
Old 10 October 2003   #45
Quote: Originally posted by Jackdeth
GreenGiant, some of your points are a little confusing, perhaps I'm missing your point...

How would going to school get you "proper skills" and self teaching get you "no respect."

It's not where your learned....but what you know. And that's not knocking it at face value. The reality is that most people don't even realize how lame thier schools were until it is too late.

I just hope people have more faith in themselves about finding the genius inside, then thinking some teacher will spoon feed the smarts into them.


[disclaimer: this is not all directed at you specifically Jack, but to the general audience...everyone's experiences are of course different]

heh...if it counts for anything, I realize how lame my school is, which frightens me to think how even more lame I'd be without it. I figured I end up having to teach myself either way, so why not have a piece of paper to at least prove my sticktoitiveness. This is by far not the only advantage (see previous posts for others) but that's about the most simplistic answer I have for now. Yea, yea...your work should prove enough for itself...too bad it usually doesn't

Anyhow, you're right, it IS a lot of what you know and not where it came from, I just think it's idealistic to think you can learn more on your own. If you are THAT good based on your own instruction, just think how much better you could be if you did go to school; you should even be able to get a scholarship to one of the "good" ones, where they offer internships and stuff ya know?

If you think school is such a bad idea and beneath you because people there don't seem to know what they're doing and students can't learn on their own, think of the opportunities you'd have to positively influence others. How bout becoming part of the solution instead of part of the problem...just a thought. We all seem to care enough about it here on this forum...I hope we all have the same sense of concern for our collegues.

Can we DO anything about school leaving such a bad taste in these people's mouth? It really makes my day when my schoolmates tell me that they appreciate my encouragement and enthusiasm, and downright cheerfulness. Sometimes I feel like such a small factor trying to balance out all the negativity. Anyone feel me here?

- poly

Edit: saw this one after I posted already

Quote: Just because self taught people don't post this pics on this web site doesn't mean that they suck. I've never posted anything here ever, so thats not a fair way to judge things. Maybe students at a school like to show off more...who knows.. [/B]


I wouldn't point that out if I were you, it's not helping you case AT ALL. There's a handy dandy edit button down there
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Last edited by polyester : 10 October 2003 at 07:23 AM.
 
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