I Was Told That I'd Fail?

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Old 11 November 2009   #31
The unfortunate reality is that professors in popular degrees have to weed out the people who just aren't going to succeed. The other unfortunate reality is that many professors respond to this need by being jerks and telling people they won't succeed. This is probably due to the fact that they either A) Don't want to bother taking the extra time working with students who need it or B) Want to light a fire under your ass.

IMO, a basic understanding of drawing is very important. This helps you set up essential artistic skills (proportions, perspective and the like), but is also quite handy in the concept stage of any project. I liken a concept sketch to an outline: yes, you could write your paper from the head, but chances are good that you'll develop a better paper if you flesh it out beforehand.

Don't be scared of drawing. A great teacher of mine once said "If you can move a pencil around without poking yourself in the eye, you can draw." You don't need to be the next friggin' Michaelangelo. In fact, most concept sketches will be handed to a concept artist for final renderings anyways.

Don't give up, man. Skill means nothing if you don't have the heart!
 
Old 11 November 2009   #32
Originally Posted by jakeh14: The unfortunate reality is that professors in popular degrees have to weed out the people who just aren't going to succeed. The other unfortunate reality is that many professors respond to this need by being jerks and telling people they won't succeed. This is probably due to the fact that they either A) Don't want to bother taking the extra time working with students who need it or B) Want to light a fire under your ass.


Maybe that's useful for testing students to see which ones are actually going to go the distance, despite the setbacks. The ones who will really succeed are the ones who go for it no matter what their teacher tells them. I guess they want to spend more of their time with those types of students. Then again, maybe they're not that smart.
 
Old 11 November 2009   #33
I can't draw. At all. Like, not even a circle. Doesnt seem to affect my modeling skills. Ive managed to get by no probs.

Not to talk down the importance of drawing, i do try and work on it.
 
Old 11 November 2009   #34
it really depends on what kind of 3D work you want to do.

if your model expertise is with objects... tanks, planes, cars, etc.
all of these things require you to see the details and to have
an 'eye' for details but none of it requires the ability to draw.

i think the person who said you need to draw thinks the only things
3d modelers do is dragons, wizards and busty babes.

being artistic and being able to draw helps greatly with creative modeling
but will have little effect on your ability to model a skyscraper for a commercial
or a soap box/lotion bottle that will be dancing in a program (for example).

modeling has more to do with having a good grasp and good foundation in
efficient poly structure, poly use, correct proportions and being able to
show the details without having to draw every bolt, then creative skills in
drawing alternate realities IMO.

now im only taking about making the base model(s) that modellers do.
not rendering, lighting, texture work, animation or story telling.

and im not saying to not try and learn to draw better. of course it will
help. its a skill and one that take practice to get good at.

i use to draw all the time. but i bet i aint picked up a pencil and sketched
anything or something from my imagination in years.

my 2 cents...
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Last edited by CADster : 11 November 2009 at 08:51 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2009   #35
You talk about drawing as it is something you are born with. If you suck at drawing, then learn how to draw. buy a few pieces of paper and pencil, get a few books and start learning, practise daily and for sure you'll get there.


and while drawing is undoubtedly important for modelling it is not necessary. If you are good drawer you already have a good sense of scale, proportions, volumes and shapes, lightning and so on... but you can learn that also directed to modelling with no need to go through drawing. But of course learning to draw won't hurt, and you really should learn a bit of it.
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Old 11 November 2009   #36
Originally Posted by CADster: i think the person who said you need to draw thinks the only things
3d modelers do is dragons, wizards and busty babes.


As one of the people who said you should be able to draw, I can assure you that ten years working in this industry in some of the biggest VFX studios in the world means I kinda know a thing or two about what 3D modelers do.

While I agree that hot drawing skills may not be essential for many types of hard surface modelling, comments like the above don't really help anyone.
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Old 11 November 2009   #37
I think it is foolish to tell somebody they need to know how to draw to know how to 3d work.
I can't draw worth a damn but I can do anything needed in 3d, including sculpting and painting models.
Maybe I would be able to draw if my pencil was on steroids like 3d tools and it had laser accuracy with lazy mouse like features or any of the millions of other highly accurate enhancements it has over drawing.
The fact is: it is different for everybody and you do not need to know how to draw to do 3d work period. It can help just as any other skill but it is not a sink or swim situation.

Last edited by BigPixolin : 11 November 2009 at 11:46 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2009   #38
It might sound melodramatic of the teacher, but at the same time it may be a quite fair and logical assessment, the drawing is just the example, it's more of an endemic issue of commitment.

How dedicated are you to this dream? If you're not dedicated enough to apply yourself and learn all the basic skills you're going to need to get a job or even to do what you want to do well then yes, you're going to fail... at that.

Doesn't mean you wont be a success in life though.

It's just that this is common sense, imagine if someone told you that they wanted to win the lottery but they never bought a ticket and have no interest in the buying ticket process, well, It's the same deal. If you want to be a great modeler then you have to apply yourself and build up the skill-set required in order to do that. It's hard to do after you hear that sort of thing, but if you really want to do this then you need to have a positive mental attitude about everything you're going to attempt to cram into your noggin, no "I can't do this" stuff, open yourself up to the possibility that you might succeed in any field, including drawing, and then work bloody hard till you do.
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Old 11 November 2009   #39
Originally Posted by BigPixolin: The fact is: it is different for everybody and you do not need to know how to draw to do 3d work period. It can help just as any other skill but it is not a sink or swim situation.


No-one here is saying it is a sink or swim situation. But if you are good at drawing, your CG work will be better. All the best CG artists I know are great traditional artists too. Fact. And another fact is that more and more studios are asking to see traditional portfolios in applicants too - the studio I work at even has a weekly drawing class for us, because they feel it is that important. While I would consider much of CG production work to be more of a craft than an art, an artistic skillset nevertheless helps tremendously, and more and more studios are opting for the artistic types over the button pushers.

I also think far too many people shroud drawing in this aura of mystery. Most people can learn to draw if they just put in the effort.
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Last edited by leigh : 11 November 2009 at 10:05 AM.
 
Old 11 November 2009   #40
Quote: I also think far too many people shroud drawing in this aura of mystery. Most people can learn to draw if they just put in the effort.


QFA. One of the best Illustrators I have ever met was Korean. He told me that when he went to school drawing was like mathematics or playing an instrument. It can be taught, practiced and learned. You may never be a great artist but even someone without any 'talent' or 'aptitude' can become a very competant illustrator if they are prepared to devote some time and effort.

I know some very experienced 3d modellers who couldnt draw to save their lives and can make amazing organic and hard surface models..
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Old 11 November 2009   #41
Originally Posted by leigh: While I would consider much of CG production work to be more of a craft than an art, an artistic skillset nevertheless helps tremendously, and more and more studios are opting for the artistic types over the button pushers.


I totally agree with this. It's kind of like the difference between a university and a technical school. At a technical school, you'll learn everything you need to know about one specific thing (3ds Max in this case). However, university will teach you why the thing is important, how to use it creatively, where it came from, its many applications, and even a bunch of stuff you don't think is important (until you actually USE that info in the real world).

So yes, if all you want to do is be a 3d modeler, you don't need drawing. But if you want to become something more than a cog (like perhaps a creative director, designer, producer, writer, et. al.), then you'll need a whole hell of a lot more than drawing at your disposal.

There is nothing wrong with going either direction, mind you. Different goals require different skill sets.
 
Old 11 November 2009   #42
Originally Posted by leigh: No-one here is saying it is a sink or swim situation. But if you are good at drawing, your CG work will be better. All the best CG artists I know are great traditional artists too. Fact. And another fact is that more and more studios are asking to see traditional portfolios in applicants too - the studio I work at even has a weekly drawing class for us, because they feel it is that important. While I would consider much of CG production work to be more of a craft than an art, an artistic skillset nevertheless helps tremendously, and more and more studios are opting for the artistic types over the button pushers.

I also think far too many people shroud drawing in this aura of mystery. Most people can learn to draw if they just put in the effort.


I completely agree. When I started doing 3D I did pretty well, but I didnt know how to draw. I ended up learning how to draw and while I dont draw fantastically, I have noticed a huge growth in my 3D and composition in general.
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Old 11 November 2009   #43
It's all about how much you are willing to put in. If you love it enough to fight for it then you will succeed. The worst thing you can do is look to other artists and say "I'm growing as fast as them so I must be failing." You are you, and your art is going to be yours. Fast or slow if you try hard it will be something unique.

That being said, it isn't all idealistic roses. It can be pretty damn hard work to make it, but if you love it than that will show in your work. Just don't give up because someone tells you that you won't make it. No one can predict your future.
 
Old 12 December 2009   #44
^welll said and i agree.


Originally Posted by leigh: As one of the people who said you should be able to draw, I can assure you that ten years working in this industry in some of the biggest VFX studios in the world means I kinda know a thing or two about what 3D modelers do.

While I agree that hot drawing skills may not be essential for many types of hard surface modelling, comments like the above don't really help anyone.





an experience joust ?

ill see your decade of experience and raise you with an additional 13 years. i have 23 years professional modeling experience. i was drawing aircraft parts for Boeing with ink on vellum in the mid 80s before computers trickled down to the workforce. my first computer 2D model was done in Autocad 2.6. i have over 15 years experience using Autocad/MD alone.

read my whole reply and quote accordingly instead of quoting only a sound bite of what you disagree with please. you took what i posted out of context by snipping it.

entertainment is not the only field where a 3D skill set is needed or used but it is one of the only ones that uses artistic talent as a measure of skill, that was my point. the OP said 3D industry, not 3D art position for the game industry.

far more modeling positions and careers deal with the analytical side of objects then the creative side. these positions have nothing (or very little) to do with art or creativity.

computer simulation (for example) has nothing to do with visualization but everything to do with extracting numbers from dead accurate 3D content. its a 'just the facts' mentality instead of the 'dazzle them with eye candy' mentality you work in and ive worked in (i have experience in game development and hollywood movies as well as defense system simulation).
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Last edited by CADster : 12 December 2009 at 10:40 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2009   #45
Originally Posted by CADster: an experience joust ?


Uh, I think you totally missed my point. Your earlier post insinuated that anyone saying you need to draw didn't know what they were talking about. I am merely clarifying that I am speaking from experience. Which is pretty much exactly what I said in my post, but if you're so determined to read it as some kind of chest-beating challenge, go ahead. Just don't make silly comments about "people thinking that all 3D modellers do is model dragons" and expect no-one to respond to it.

Quote: ill see your decade of experience and raise you with an additional 13 years. i have 23 years professional modeling experience.


Strange then that the resume on your website says you've only been modelling for 12 years:

Quote: Computer Skills:
12 years total experience using the following software : 3D Studio MAX, AutoCad/Mechanical Desktop, LightWave, MicroStation, Unigraphics, SolidWorks, PowerAnimator, Studio.


Not that I want to nitpick or anything. But if you're going to turn this into an e-peen contest, then make up your mind. Unless you're talking about actual physical modelling? In which case, that's an entirely different medium, and, oddly enough, one I'd say that drawing skills are also quite important for.

Quote: far more modeling positions and careers deal with the analytical side of objects then the creative side. these positions have nothing (or very little) to do with art or creativity.


Sorry, but I totally disagree. As far as 3D modeller positions go, the vast majority of jobs would be in the games, TV/broadcast, web and film industries. CAD is something I'd regard as an entirely separate discipline altogether. Considering the guy who posted this thread is going to Full Sail, I think it's a fair bet that he's wanting to head into one of these fields.
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