CG animation schools to rich for my blood

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Old 03 March 2009   #16
Originally Posted by Duhjin: I didnít know I had to have such proper technical writing SKILLS when writing in forums. I thought forums are a place of playful writing. . Also should I use APA style? Is it ok to put lol? Or should I spell it out, laughing out loudÖ As you could have guessed Iím just fooling around and busting your chops and I hope you are too. If I knew spelling skills with a Z would make you that upset I would have never done it. Sorry for upsetting you. And thanks for your help it will be very useful in the future.


If you can spell properly why would you choose not to? 'lol' is an acronym and a short hand for an emotion not easily expressed on the internet. Using a 'z' where an 's' should clearly go is not cute or humourous. In fact, to be quite frank with you, your post lost all credibility with me personally after I saw your version of 'skills'. It is akin to young 'thugs' or 'gangsta's' calling you 'dog' and 'home boy', who actually takes these people seriously?
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Old 03 March 2009   #17
Originally Posted by Geta-Ve: If you can spell properly why would you choose not to? 'lol' is an acronym and a short hand for an emotion not easily expressed on the internet. Using a 'z' where an 's' should clearly go is not cute or humourous. In fact, to be quite frank with you, your post lost all credibility with me personally after I saw your version of 'skills'. It is akin to young 'thugs' or 'gangsta's' calling you 'dog' and 'home boy', who actually takes these people seriously?



I agree completely
 
Old 03 March 2009   #18
Depends on what you mean by cheap. For example I started at University of The Arts as an animation major that was $18k per year for 4 years. I left there and went to The DAVE School, which turned out to be a far better experience. DAVE was $25k (when I went, idk now), but it was only one year so far less over all.

You can only learn so much on the internet. You may learn technically how to use the tools, but at a school you gain SO much more from sharing ideas with others and working as part of a team. Studios will want to know that you play well with others. You may be a good artist but you're useless to them if you can't follow direction or work well on a team. I don't know about other schools but DAVE was set up like a studio. You went in and worked with the same people 5 hours a day 5 days a week. Everyone works together to share ideas and tips / tricks. Before it's over the whole class works together on one big film for a real client.
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Old 03 March 2009   #19
Re: Duhjin.

Whilst Geta-Ve is making a bit of a mountain out of a mole-hill, I will just point out that there are employers who do look at this site. Sure, theres no harm in being yourself and playful but just keep in mind that employers might not be impressed by someone using such "slang".

LOL, back in school I once wrote "...Jesus, being a nice geezer, said to..." and got bollocked infront of the whole class. For me and my friends it was hilarious, but not for our teacher who was trying to get me through my GCSE. I could have just said "nice person" instead and still have my teacher's respect - but he pretty much gave up on me after that...
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Old 03 March 2009   #20
Originally Posted by Boone: Re: Duhjin.

Whilst Geta-Ve is making a bit of a mountain out of a mole-hill, I will just point out that there are employers who do look at this site. Sure, theres no harm in being yourself and playful but just keep in mind that employers might not be impressed by someone using such "slang".



It is not so much that he used it jokingly, if he were being sarcastic and such that would be fine (maybe he was?) but he came here asking for serious advice, I would think he would take the subject a little more serious. That is my main issue with it.
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Old 03 March 2009   #21
You would be surprised how many people type the way he does with zeds and even talk that way WORKING in studios. I've been to alot of gaming and film studios where its actually okay to even speak that way. Not all thugs speak like that either so I wouldn't be so prejudice. Keep an open mind and accept that there's other cultures that speak differently, but are wonderful persons. I personally don't find it appropriate to type or speak that way and can't take most serious either, but I've slowly adapted and its not that bad so take a chill pill. There's no harsh voicing if you feel I'm speaking roughly. Other than that, to the OP... I and most of the artist here are self-taught and pretty damn successful so if you can find that discipline and dedication like others mentioned before me, I believe you will get quite far in this field.
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Old 03 March 2009   #22
If you want professional teaching then go and do it, so long as you research on the internet what schools are industry proven and are tought by professionals. Also try visiting the courses that you intend to go to with some sort of tour and ask some of the students what they thought of the course. As for the cost of the course I agree with the others it will cost you but also in my opinion you will get alot more out of the course when professionals are teaching you what you need for the industry and should lead to a career. Professional advice is also invaluable in terms of cost. Aside from teaching, it is also what you put in that is most important, even with amazing teaching, you still need to work hard and learn on you own too. What I mean by learning on your own is to stay late after classes and work on what was tought in class by yourself as there is no fast way to absorb all the information with just a class, you still need to practice it. Even if learning is slow you still have to keep pushing to be able to reach that career. Well good luck what choice you make but just remember to do your research on the school and courses, in my opinion being tought by professionals what I would chose to do and what I did do.
 
Old 03 March 2009   #23
Some more things I forgot to mention about going to a school-- School is your first step in networking. If you're being taught by professionals, those are possibly your very first industry contacts, they might even recommend you for a job that they hear about. Same goes for your classmates. If it's anything like my school a large number of your classmates will be out there working in the field after graduation. So they seem like your buddies in class, but after you graduate they become instant business contacts. Maybe through them you might meet more people.

Aside from just networking, schools like DAVE have job placement and good advice on making a demo reel. William Vaughan started teaching at my school long after I had graduated and moved back home, so we never officially met in person. But he sure did offer to give me interview tips over the phone when I was interviewing with Blizzard.

Will your demo reel have some shots that need long render times or would benefit from more render time? You can bet the school has a bigger render farm than you do at home.
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Old 03 March 2009   #24
You make a lot of strong points and are very helpful. On a side note I was reading the Sticky: FORUM PRIMER: The Unofficial Truth about The Industry by -dc-, at the top of the page. And what a great read I couldnít walk away. Anyone new to the forums or has not seen it should check it out. Again Thanks everyone for your advice and help.

Duhjin
 
Old 03 March 2009   #25
Originally Posted by Stormy151: I've found that anything "Good" isn't "cheap". So how much do you consider not an "arm and a leg"?


I completely disagree with that sentiment. I bought a $500 dollar Turnbull and Asser shirt once and I've worn it twice and hate it, meanwhile the Autodesk Maya shirt I got for free last year, helped get me my current girlfriend and is becoming a rag. Shrug. In essence, it comes down to rolling up your sleeves and researching these schools websites, asking questions, finding out the passion of the 3d instructors, and reviewing student reels. It's no different than anything else when it comes to knowledge. I never pimp the school that I've instructed 3D at for 9 years on this site, but we are dirt cheap and have assisted in sending students to Pixar, Rhthym and Hues, Firaxis Games, etc., etc. who knew nothing about 3D when they arrived. And I'm sure there are many other similar types of high quality, low cost schools around. In other words, I don't like cliches and closed statements. I also don't believe in sweeping generalizations concerning success and people. Does everybody need to go to school to get into this industry? Absolutely not, go self taught if you can do it. Do some people need to go to school to get into this industry? Absolutely.
Will some schools steal your money if you don't do your homework? You bet your ass.
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Last edited by MrPositive : 03 March 2009 at 01:53 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2009   #26
Originally Posted by UnSeenGenius: You would be surprised how many people type the way he does with zeds and even talk that way WORKING in studios. I've been to alot of gaming and film studios where its actually okay to even speak that way. Not all thugs speak like that either so I wouldn't be so prejudice. Keep an open mind and accept that there's other cultures that speak differently, but are wonderful persons. I personally don't find it appropriate to type or speak that way and can't take most serious either, but I've slowly adapted and its not that bad so take a chill pill. There's no harsh voicing if you feel I'm speaking roughly. Other than that, to the OP... I and most of the artist here are self-taught and pretty damn successful so if you can find that discipline and dedication like others mentioned before me, I believe you will get quite far in this field.


I probably would be surprised you're right, but it doesn't make it right, nor does it mean I have to, or even should, be accepting of it. As per the prejudice remark, that is a laugh and a half, the whole label of thug and gangster comes from how they dress and act.



Difference of opinion I suppose.

Anyhow though, I agree a lot of artists that are self taught are amazing, however the amount of discipline you need is staggering.

Also, for the money issue being brought up, let me just tell you. I paid 20 grand for my CG school in Toronto, Canada (IADT) and it was the worst investment of my life thus far. I received nothing out of it, most of the teachers were idiots, no offense to one of the teachers (nice guy) but he was teaching us out of a Maya guide book, and basically I am no further than I was 5 years ago. Granted after school the lack of growth is my fault, but the school was horrendous. So more money does not always mean better schools. As many say, research, research, research!
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Last edited by Geta-Ve : 03 March 2009 at 01:27 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2009   #27
Originally Posted by Geta-Ve: Anyhow though, I agree a lot of artists that are self taught are amazing, however the amount of discipline you need is staggering.

I'm self taught, lack any form of discipline or moderation, but am still doing ok and have been for a few years.
Nodding and smiling at meetings and soaking people in gasoline at dailies to threaten them with a match is the magic bullet in my experience.

On a more thread related notice, could the thugs and moderation police discussion have an end please? The OP seems to have gracefully taken on board the concepts of proper vocabulary and spelling several posts ago. I'm positive we can move on and start nitpicking punctuation now
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Old 03 March 2009   #28
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO:
On a more thread related notice, could the thugs and moderation police discussion have an end please? The OP seems to have gracefully taken on board the concepts of proper vocabulary and spelling several posts ago. I'm positive we can move on and start nitpicking punctuation now


You forgot a period at the end of that last sentence. This post brought to you by the grammar brigade. Peace out.
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Last edited by MrPositive : 03 March 2009 at 01:55 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2009   #29
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: I'm self taught, lack any form of discipline or moderation, but am still doing ok and have been for a few years.
Nodding and smiling at meetings and soaking people in gasoline at dailies to threaten them with a match is the magic bullet in my experience.


I fail to see how you could possibly properly teach yourself anything without any form of discipline and/or moderation as you put it. Perhaps you are an exception to the rule, or maybe you simply don't realize how much self discipline you actually have. You obviously get your work done so that in itself shows a good amount of discipline.

I still believe in what I said.
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Old 03 March 2009   #30
Originally Posted by Geta-Ve: I can tell you one thing. No one will want you if you continually think spelling skills with a zed (z) at the end is OK. It is NOT ok to be intentionally ignorant.


C'mon Geta, ease off. How many people post these kinds of threads here who don't even know what punctuation is? It's the internet. I'm sure he wouldn't spell it that way on a college application. He doesn't need to impress or behave properly around us. We are just random people on a message board.

I am also dismayed that not a single post in this thread actually answers his question. This guy is a noob, who is asking a genuine, well structured, and life changing question. I wish I could answer it for him, but I don't live in the States, never mind N.Y., so I wouldn't know. Sure everyone can post 'just buy Gnomon's back catalogue', and that is a fine suggestion for studying alongside your college course, but the reality of the situation is, if this guy ever wants to travel and work (which this career choice affords people) outside of the 51 states then he needs a degree. He was just asking where he could get one for less than the extortionate prices the U.S. charges. I don't blame him. I got mine for free, essentially, and grants for general living while doing it. I would certainly not pay tens of thousands of dollars for a college education, I couldn't even if I wanted to.

EDIT: Phil Nolan makes an excellent point. Networking is also something you get from going to college.

Last edited by blenderhead : 03 March 2009 at 02:15 PM.
 
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