Why 3D education isn't working - 3DWorld article online

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12 December 2008   #1
Why 3D education isn't working - 3DWorld article online

Why 3D education isn't working. (Written by Mark Ramshaw)

An interesting read.

http://www.3dworldmag.com/page/3dwo...education_isn_t

I got quoted! Thanks Mark.

D.
__________________
LinkedIN
VIMEO

- My thoughts are my own and should not be confused with anyone else's.

Last edited by vfx : 12 December 2008 at 04:50 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2008   #2
I like these quotes:

Over at UK VFX studio Double Negative, HR manager Vic Rodgers agrees that undergraduate courses should be given a broad-based 3D education. “A course should initially give exposure to all aspects of CGI – modelling to a level, lighting, texturing, shading, procedural work, particle systems, rigid body dynamics, Maya and Houdini animation, technical and or character work, rigging, compositing and so on.”

Rodgers believes there are too many courses in the UK that try to do too much, and end up with graduates that aren’t capable of mastering anything: “Sadly many courses do not facilitate the development of a deeper understanding of methodology and simply teach people how to push buttons.”

and..

“Many universities and colleges now effectively operate as businesses,” points out Jason Jenner, training manager at Escape Studios. “They are interested in attendance numbers and fees and aim to attract students by offering courses in appealing subjects such as CG, games and VFX. This accounts for the explosion in the number of games-focused courses, some of which contain a somewhat schizophrenic curriculum; courses teaching a blend of games art, level design and programming?”
__________________
LW FREE MODELS:FOR REAL Home Anatomy Thread
FXWARS
:Daily Sketch Forum:HCR Modeling
This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government

 
Old 12 December 2008   #3
Thumbs up

good read.
 
Old 12 December 2008   #4
If even I, knowing not much of English by the time, was able to sit my lazy butt and learn almost everything that I knew before I got my first job in the industry, just by researching the internet, doing tutorials, reading everything on these forums, all in my SPARE TIME since I had a full time job, I still cannot understand why so many people think that the only way to learn something is by going to a school. Look, first you have to show interest to learn. If you do, then you will evolve A LOT by researching and practicing by yourself. It's not like a teacher will open your head and upload the information there. A teacher will give you directions, exercises and will try to prepare you for the environment of a studio but no one will just press a button and you automatically will become ready to work. I think people should spend more time trying and learning by themselves other than wondering around as they do most of the time. There are so many people asking for advice on these forums, starting the same threads over and over but you never see the work most of them create because they just don't want to create anything. They just want a magic formula that will make them good artists and get them into the industry, all in a blink. Nowadays there is SO MUCH free information all over the place. People could spend more time learning by themselves instead of spending a ton of money in some money-making machine that is pretty much what some of these schools turned into.
My 2 cents.
-Kris
__________________
My Work
Antropus @ Facebook
 
Old 12 December 2008   #5
Just seeing how universities are adopting these courses as a way to attract students. Boy, when i first looked at university for film they didnt even have an animation program(or they canceled it for lack of students).
A career in animation or special effects was so unusual that you could only learn by on the job training or a subscription to Cinemagic magazine. You had to be a self-starter/trouble shooter by nature. Model maker, woodworker, electrician, metal shop skills....

Now its an office desk job.

 
Old 12 December 2008   #6
I think maybe there is a misconception (among some of us) about what education is or at least should be about - it's about teaching you how to teach yourself, networking and putting in among other like minded people. If knowledge sublimates itself from A to B in the process then that's all for the good, but there is a curious concept that education is some sort of factory line, forcing information into peoples heads. It isn't. It's an opportunity, that's all.

Why is that good? Because not everyone knows where to start, or look in order to find the knowledge and information that they need in order to progress, especially in an alien field. You just can't expect everyone to have the lucky chances of reading a certain article, or seeing a certain program, or finding a certain forum or mentor etc that might set one person down the road to self driven success in a field (so that's where education steps in to help, or allows people to help themselves if you think about it clearly).

On that matter sadly there's a snobbish attitude attached to this on both sides, success is self driven whether you have a classical education or not - the education for one person is just one step/tool on their journey to success, just as the first paid job is. A driven person is driven no matter what route they take and to what ends, same goes for serendipity.
__________________
The Third Party | Homepage | My Reel
"You need to know what you're doing before you start, and to start because you need what you're doing."
 
Old 12 December 2008   #7
Gotta say, that was an accurate and great read - Thanks for the link

Currently being one of those 'industry-experienced' tutors at a college at the moment, I can concur with all the points bought up in that article, and all the pros and cons are globally accurate - Even here in New Zealand.

Honestly, I prefer the good old-fashioned way of learn it yourself... But then, there were never schools about when I was interested in 3D.
 
Old 12 December 2008   #8
i agree with what everyone has to say...but still...there are a few schools I wouldn't mind going to if I could...i'm open to learning from people that actually know what they're doing. other than that, self motivation is the only other option.
__________________
 
Old 12 December 2008   #9
I could kinda see this coming. I have a friend who is attending a school that teaches 3d. There were a lot of clueless students... clueless instructors... and my friend is the one teaching the class.

Anyhoo, this is one issue I will certainly be buying.
__________________
My Portfolio
 
Old 12 December 2008   #10
Originally Posted by Antropus: If even I, knowing not much of English by the time, was able to sit my lazy butt and learn almost everything that I knew before I got my first job in the industry, just by researching the internet, doing tutorials, reading everything on these forums, all in my SPARE TIME since I had a full time job, I still cannot understand why so many people think that the only way to learn something is by going to a school. [...]

A couple of weeks ago I talked to a person who wanted to be 3D artist or civil servant or maybe a doctor.

There is a lot of people like that in CG schools - people with no passion or even genuine interest in CGI. They also tend to think that just showing piece of paper to the employer will get them a job and CG schools (as said in article) are business, so they tend to keep people deluded.

The most ridiculous courses I've ever seen are indeed game design courses.
__________________
Michal
------
Linked

Last edited by mdee : 12 December 2008 at 09:58 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2008   #11
I think education gets a bad wrap in this industry. And while a lot of schools take advantage of students by offering very little of value for large sums of money, proper cg education surely has it's place.
I agree with Per-Anders, it's an opportunity. It's where you set aside a time of your life to devote to learning. It's access to equipment, software and expertise. It's an opportunity to place yourself among like minded peers. Something you simply can not do sitting in your bedroom in front of the monitor.
__________________
Cheers!
 
Old 12 December 2008   #12
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: I like these quotes:

Over at UK VFX studio Double Negative, HR manager Vic Rodgers agrees that undergraduate courses should be given a broad-based 3D education. “A course should initially give exposure to all aspects of CGI – modelling to a level, lighting, texturing, shading, procedural work, particle systems, rigid body dynamics, Maya and Houdini animation, technical and or character work, rigging, compositing and so on.”


Sadly to say, this almost happen in every major IMHO. i took computer science degree, they gave me from binary calculation to Web Application for multi international company. but i dont think i can complaint since generalist sometimes needed more than specialist, and its up to you which one dyou like the most and which one dyou want to specialize.

i think understanding all aspect of 3D production top bottom is important.

just my 2 cents though
 
Old 12 December 2008   #13
Quote: “Many universities and colleges now effectively operate as businesses,” points out Jason Jenner, training manager at Escape Studios. “They are interested in attendance numbers and fees and aim to attract students by offering courses in appealing subjects such as CG, games and VFX. This accounts for the explosion in the number of games-focused courses, some of which contain a somewhat schizophrenic curriculum; courses teaching a blend of games art, level design and programming?”


I don't see any problem with this, and i don't see that is more complex or schizofrenic than first quote that goes from proceduralism to rigid body going to modeling.

I have studied in an Art University and one of my troubles is to not have any programming. Understandable at time, today i think everyone should have programming.
 
Old 12 December 2008   #14
I agree completely with Per-Anders, the best thing about studying 3D at the university is that you can get alot of friends who are into the same things as you and then you can help eachother to learn. Ive learned alot from working together with other people and sharing knowledge with them. One guy might be really good at rendering, another is wicked at particle systems so you share your knowledge with eachother and everyone improves.


One thing that companies need to understand though is that its not the job of the school to create ready-to-hire specialists. If a company wants people that are experts in using their specific pipeline, they have to train them themselves. Some companies still believe they can get expert knowledge at someone else's expense, which is bollocks.
 
Old 12 December 2008   #15
Originally Posted by Per-Anders: I think maybe there is a misconception (among some of us) about what education is or at least should be about - it's about teaching you how to teach yourself, networking and putting in among other like minded people. If knowledge sublimates itself from A to B in the process then that's all for the good, but there is a curious concept that education is some sort of factory line, forcing information into peoples heads. It isn't. It's an opportunity, that's all.

Why is that good? Because not everyone knows where to start, or look in order to find the knowledge and information that they need in order to progress, especially in an alien field. You just can't expect everyone to have the lucky chances of reading a certain article, or seeing a certain program, or finding a certain forum or mentor etc that might set one person down the road to self driven success in a field (so that's where education steps in to help, or allows people to help themselves if you think about it clearly).


This is so true for me, before undertaking my course all I knew was that I wanted to animate. Its such a massive field to even begin to learn about that without the guidance of my course I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today had I gone it alone, lost in the sea of information, for me it was like a springboard.
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.