CGTalk > Techniques > Animation
Login register
reply share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-24-2003, 11:27 PM   #16
LucentDreams
lover of gophers
 
LucentDreams's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Kai Pedersen
Lighting Lead
Double Negative
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,362
A decent source actually would be Februaries copy of DIGIT magazine, thecover story was a review of many classical animation packages.

Anyways heres my list of links and cooments on how I see the packages I know of.

www.animo.com Cambridge Animation Systems package, one of the top in the industry very widely used. Module based this one has the abilities to work with 3D packages like maya and also output swf files. Its fully capable of feature quality production.

www.toonboom.com This is the package I am most familiar with, being a moderator for their websoftware toonboom studio, and using USanimation for my film and such. This ones a little different than most other packages since the anmation is Purely vector, meaning everything you scan in will be converted to vector, but it also supports bringing in raster images for backgrounds andoverlays, that scanning will have to be done in a program like photoshop. Module based as well, with the best out of swf out of the highend packages because of its vector drawings, the sizes are much smaller and equal to the highqualityoutput except for things like tone a blur which cannot be done in flash. This is definitely one of the top and has been used on a few features as well.

www.mediapegs.com THey now have a lighter version I would checkout called ipegs, seems to do a lot for a lot less, though only outputting to flash. the highend package is widely used in Europe excluding the UK. This one is more pixelbased like CAS, but both have the ability to work in vector aswel though not as wel refined in that area as USanimation and requires a seperate module for that ability. as mentioned this one is also module based.

www.softimage.com Thats right Avid's softimage is even in the market, not talking about XSI, but rather Toonz which I might add is actually liscnced by softimage not directly developed by them but rather a company called Digital Video. Toonz is there classical animatin package, very flexible and module based like the other highend packages, one advantage is the amazing support with softimage 3D packages for 3D integration. If you want to do things like treasure planet this and XSI would make a lethal combo. Another special feature is the availability of a 2D particle generator module, this one seems to be a great one to checkout.

www.retas.com If your going to work in anime whether in Japan or Korea, or almost any carton on Fox's Kids WB, then this is the package, very widely used over seas in japan, this one has quickly become known as the anime painter. Module based as well, this is capable of feature quality as can be seen in Princess mononoke which used this as its main package, Studio Ghible has since changed to Toonz and XSI because of their increasing 3D integration, but Retas also has some nice 3D compatibility with Studio max, using camera information and such. This one is 100% pixel, no vectors whatsoever, meaning you must work at the highest resolutions you know you will need.

www.animationstand.com This ones well over 13 years old now and comes in two version basically for the tenth of the price of their best package, you lose the feature resolutions, but still capable of TV resolutions. This is one of the more midend packages, used a bit in TV and one of the few thats all in one rather than seperate modules. I don't know a lot of the overall features for this one like whether its vector or pixel.

www.cratersoftware.com CTP is growing popular nowadays, only capable of HDTV output this midend package is still module based a plus in my books this one supports the most formats that I know of, and can output flash and is pixelbased.

www.digicel.com This one has many different level packages available, capaple of telivision output and on the higher packages flash output as well. Only the top package include painting and colour capabilities, but it isn't widely used for that. The main strength of this one is simple clean and easy to edit, which is why this one is probably the most used linetesting package out there, the line test version are all quite cheap and basically change in how many layers they support. Pixel based and capable of using either scanner or camera to capture all in one app, you can line test in mere second and control your lipsyncing right in the app. Also this one has a storyboard feature optimised for better handling of filming animatics of your storyboard. While many of the higend have some type of linetesting module, this one is flast clean and simple, the last two releases have ben quite stable as well, definitely a small cheapone to get for linetesting you won't be sorry. Its production features are somewhat of a joke though.



FLASH PRODUCTION

Well flash is growing ever popular, and now we are even seeing cartoons animated for telivision in macromedias flash software. Here are a few programs aimed more for web, though a few like Flash itself, can actually be used for telivision quality production, but while being vector makes the resolution independent, I wopuld never try these on feature films YET.

www.macromedia.com Flash is very well known as are its featurs so no in depth here, probably the most flexible all round, thuogh as an animator, its the most disorganised as its designed for interactive content with scripting, its acutally not designed for classical animation, thats just a bonus ability.

www.toonboom.com toonboom studio V2 is toonbooms lowend web software. not to be confused with USanimation they share very litle in comon outside of the 3D camera which is definitely toonboom studio's advantage in the market, having a rewal 3D camera built in, multiplane compex camera shots are easily done for web animations. Its drawing tools are quite nice, and the ap was definitely developed along with some classical animators, having lighttable options, an actualy animation disc you can rotate in the application so your not trying to turn that large tablet around. This has no support for scripting and use of symbols is very different and somewhat clunky, most toonboom studio users do not use this alone but along with Flash.

www.lostmarble.com MOHO is gaining fast popularity, having some really uniques features such a a particle generator and get this, IK bone animation system for 2D vector images. Now thats original. THis is not aimed at classical animators but more for those 3D guys wanting to do 2D flash IMO. This one isn't really my cup of tea, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

http://www.creaturehouse.com/lcels.htm Creature house has one of the simplest and coolest vector illustration programs, I like it more than Illustrator myself, though its not designed for also doing page layouts and such. NOw they are working on Living Cels, not available yet, but taking advantage of their awesome vector tools and stroke effcts and such, this is one tool to keep an eye one. Already Expresssion 3 has swf output and some basic scripting abilities for buttons and such. Hopefully they release their own output format for animation as well that takes advantage of their strokes and realtime reflection map embossing. Both packages I recommend you keep an eye out for. Its still tryingto get the word out there, but IMO these guys are making something big and revolutionary.


DRAWING ANIMATION

Well in some apps you can actualy draw, though a serious animtor still uses his paper and pencils then scans in,now it seems one company is trying to change that. http://plasticanimationpaper.dk/ has designed a software, NOT for painting, it has no paint features whatsoever, this is strictly designed for DRAWING animatin and CLEANING it up. not vector, the program is failry simple to use, works strictly with a tablet unless you get there freeware which comes with both a tablet version and a mouse version, you cannot use both mouse and tablet in one version though. must be in one or the other. it has some cool features, I'l watch its progress, but for now, I"m sticking to pencil and paper

I'm sure there are a few other packages to check out.

Hope this informatin helps you guys out. If you want to know more about other classical animation tools like Discs, Desks, Paper pencils pegbars all that feel free to ask, I could try to make a list of those as well.
__________________
Quote:
"Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 03-26-2003, 12:36 PM   #17
steveblake
Frequenter
 
steveblake's Avatar
portfolio
steven blake
Animatorizer
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
Well, with all this talk about PAP - I took it home and played around with for a few hours last night, and to be honest I came away very impressed. I think it's really neat, and probably as close to a real lightbox as you could really come (within the limitations of a PC with a wacom).

So, does anyone know what features are unlocked when you register? I know that sound support is added, but I'm interested in the Zoom & Blue pencil features for example..

Perhaps these are reserved for the 'professional' versions...
Anyone know? Niels??

thanks!

ps- great breakdown of what's on offer Kai. Good stuff!
__________________
steven blake - senior visualiser | designer
stevenblake.tumblr.com - homepage
@pandachilli - twitter
 
Old 03-26-2003, 07:10 PM   #18
LucentDreams
lover of gophers
 
LucentDreams's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Kai Pedersen
Lighting Lead
Double Negative
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,362
welll red pencil for layout is there, haven't founf the blue pencil myself, sounds is not in the shareware, and as far as I know thats it, perhpas resolutions :/
__________________
Quote:
"Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 03-26-2003, 08:19 PM   #19
NielsKM
New Member
 
NielsKM's Avatar
Niels Krogh Mortensen
Animator/Director
Denmark
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28
Hi Steveblake and Kaiskai!

When you register the shareware version of PAP the register screen in the beginning will go away and you will get the abillity to import - and playback sound to your animation.

The blue pen is available in the "PAP:Broadcast" edition - as well as cutouts (very easy copy/paste-like function for small parts of drawings, cycles or complete animation), scaling/rotation, effective timing functionallity and much more.

The biggest edition (PAP:Film) has the same as PAP:Broadcast, but has higher resolutions.

Feel free to ask me more! I know PAP!
 
Old 03-27-2003, 10:09 AM   #20
steveblake
Frequenter
 
steveblake's Avatar
portfolio
steven blake
Animatorizer
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
Quote:
Feel free to ask me more! I know PAP!


Thanks Guys.

This great product has rekindled my enthusiasm for 2D - big time ! ! !

Just a quicky (for the moment). What's the best method for cleanups with the shareware version?

Without the blue pencil. I'm thinking that maybe saving out the frames and then loading them back in as a sequence in the background, for tracing over.

Is that possible??

Um, also... on a technical note. I seem to have had no luck running shareware PAP at work. I think the problem is that we have widescreen monitors, at home my tiny monitor seems to 'flick' over to PAPs resolution and back. At work I just get an error... Any thoughts?

Many thanks!
__________________
steven blake - senior visualiser | designer
stevenblake.tumblr.com - homepage
@pandachilli - twitter

Last edited by steveblake : 03-27-2003 at 10:15 AM.
 
Old 03-27-2003, 11:11 AM   #21
telesto
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 18
whoa! thanks Kaiskai!

that sure was a detailed post, and very helpful. thanks a lot.

Quote:
Hope this informatin helps you guys out. If you want to know more about other classical animation tools like Discs, Desks, Paper pencils pegbars all that feel free to ask, I could try to make a list of those as well.


that would be very nice. since I have no experience in 2d animation, only 3d.
__________________
this is my clone
 
Old 03-27-2003, 11:11 AM   #22
LucentDreams
lover of gophers
 
LucentDreams's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Kai Pedersen
Lighting Lead
Double Negative
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,362
Cleaining is sort of my issue as well, I find tablets alone are not steady enough to get a good line quality, when I clean with a pencil I typically use a 0.3mm mechanical or a really sharp 2b and feather the strokes to get thick and thin. No way I can really get that kind of control with a tablet.

As for not having the blue pencil you could use the layout pencil adn draw over that. as well if you keep drawing your lines slowly fade I noticed. I drew a sketch of Silver from Treasure planet, and noticed that lines I had really built up were light grey as I was working on another area. neat feature IMO I see a lto fo potential, but I see a lot of problems. Just curious if they have considered the risk in their marking menu system which could land them asuit from Alias wavefront. The limted resolution is kind of annoying and as you mentioned doesn't work on widescreen, also causes colour and resolution problems on the second monitor of a dual display system. would be cool if you could draw like its currently set up, and then clean over top in a vector line. The current system cause me to be looser and rougher than I am in flahs and Toonboom, but for cleanup and output, vector has distinct advantages, as well it could be exported to any vector program like flash for easier painting frame by frame than say photoshop.

Great program in the works and glad to see it being developed by Danes perhaps I wil finally get some approval from my father when he sees that a piece of software I'm using is danish. Do you know any classical stuidos in Denmark hiring classical animators. I'd still love to go visit, though my family didn't teach me very much danish.
__________________
Quote:
"Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 03-27-2003, 04:37 PM   #23
NielsKM
New Member
 
NielsKM's Avatar
Niels Krogh Mortensen
Animator/Director
Denmark
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally posted by steveblake
Without the blue pencil. I'm thinking that maybe saving out the frames and then loading them back in as a sequence in the background, for tracing over.

Is that possible??


In the Shareware version you can not load other formats than PAP animation. In the commercial editions of PAP you have plenty of ways to do the cleaning.

But if you want to stick with the Shareware edition, you could use the lighttable or layout features to trace rough drawings from one frame to another - doing the cleanup. I.e. add blank frames between all the rough ones and do the cleanup on the blanks using the lighttable. Then delete the rough frames and you're done.


Quote:

Um, also... on a technical note. I seem to have had no luck running shareware PAP at work. I think the problem is that we have widescreen monitors, at home my tiny monitor seems to 'flick' over to PAPs resolution and back. At work I just get an error... Any thoughts?


Did you check if your graphics card is able to run 800x600 in 8 bit mode? Sometimes it's a matter of screen drivers.

Anyway, I will check if there's a problem with PAP running on a widescreen - and get back to you with an answer...
 
Old 03-27-2003, 06:01 PM   #24
LucentDreams
lover of gophers
 
LucentDreams's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Kai Pedersen
Lighting Lead
Double Negative
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,362
Curious as to why they chose such low settings, I know that many newer cards actually perform slower at extremely low settings compared to medium settings
__________________
Quote:
"Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 03-28-2003, 12:25 PM   #25
NielsKM
New Member
 
NielsKM's Avatar
Niels Krogh Mortensen
Animator/Director
Denmark
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaiskai
Curious as to why they chose such low settings, I know that many newer cards actually perform slower at extremely low settings compared to medium settings


You are maybe right - I don't know about the differences in specific graphics cards.

Because PAP has been around (in Denmark) for many years, it was an early decision we (I'm the producer of PAP) made to make sure everything would run very quickly and smoothly on those old computers. Today the "standard" computer is much faster and we could have done things differently, by pushing the modern computer more.

We will though - in the next major release (4.0)!
 
Old 03-28-2003, 12:45 PM   #26
steveblake
Frequenter
 
steveblake's Avatar
portfolio
steven blake
Animatorizer
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
Even as it is now, PAP is great. A simple idea executed very well indeed. The fact that there is a Shareware version at all is a great bonus.

I think that I'll be using it quite a bit at home, so will probebely register for the shareware version very soon...

..and If I could get it working here at work, I'd be fiddling around with it in my lunchtimes.

Good stuff!
__________________
steven blake - senior visualiser | designer
stevenblake.tumblr.com - homepage
@pandachilli - twitter
 
Old 03-28-2003, 01:41 PM   #27
NielsKM
New Member
 
NielsKM's Avatar
Niels Krogh Mortensen
Animator/Director
Denmark
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally posted by steveblake
[B]Even as it is now, PAP is great. A simple idea executed very well indeed. The fact that there is a Shareware version at all is a great bonus.

I think that I'll be using it quite a bit at home, so will probebely register for the shareware version very soon...



Thank you very much!


I asked our programmer and PAP should work fine on widescreens. It must be at matter of the driver. Did you check if it allows 800x600x8?
 
Old 03-28-2003, 01:48 PM   #28
steveblake
Frequenter
 
steveblake's Avatar
portfolio
steven blake
Animatorizer
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
Quote:
Did you check if it allows 800x600x8?


Hey

Actually yes i did and... no it doesn't. Sadly.

Only works with 32bit True Colour, looking at my Display properties, it's a ATI Fire GL2 card. Has anyone had any success with these?

If it did work, It'd good if I didn't have to setup my screen each time too, since it's a bind having to realign my icons around the desktop each time... Still, that's just me..

(Thanks for your thoughts on this. I've tried to pursuade our resident 2D animatorizer to have a go at this unfortunately he's too busy and probebely benefit from me giving him a demo.)

__________________
steven blake - senior visualiser | designer
stevenblake.tumblr.com - homepage
@pandachilli - twitter
 
Old 03-28-2003, 02:18 PM   #29
LucentDreams
lover of gophers
 
LucentDreams's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Kai Pedersen
Lighting Lead
Double Negative
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,362
being ATI don't you have an option to remember icon placement, using a single monitor with ati 9000 I have no problems, except the colours on the second screen, but now knowing thta it performs at 8 bit, thats all thats wrong with the colours on the second screen.
__________________
Quote:
"Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 03-28-2003, 02:26 PM   #30
steveblake
Frequenter
 
steveblake's Avatar
portfolio
steven blake
Animatorizer
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
Quote:
being ATI don't you have an option to remember icon placement, using a single monitor with ati 9000 I have no problems


icon placement? Don't think so. Right-clicking on the desktop the only relevant options I get are to lock, arrange and line them up...

anyway don't think this card supports 8bit. But maybe I'm wrong...
__________________
steven blake - senior visualiser | designer
stevenblake.tumblr.com - homepage
@pandachilli - twitter
 
reply share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.