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Old 01-29-2003, 02:49 PM   #46
Iain McFadzen
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Yup, spirals are a huge pain. They don't hurt your model at all, they just make it slightly more cumbersome to work with (having to select edges one at a time rather than with a single key-stroke). I don't know at what point the mesh itself becomes more important than my patience, my milage varies depending on my mood
 
Old 01-29-2003, 03:47 PM   #47
jenga
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Lightbulb I want to learn from you guys!!!!

can you guys do a screen capture tutorial, modeling a head for ppl like me who want to learn???? pleasseeeee!!!!
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Old 01-29-2003, 03:49 PM   #48
ThirdEye
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Spirals? You obbiously end with some ngons. Edgeloops all the way!
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Old 01-29-2003, 04:17 PM   #49
Lunatique
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Quote:
Originally posted by Laa-Yosh
Spirals versus edge loops, IMHO: you can easily add more detail to edge loops by beveling one of them, or by connecting a set of edge rings.
But if your edges are spiraling, it's quite hard to add more geometry. I've just had such a situation with the leg of a model here and it required many extra steps...


That's a good point. Maybe I ought to make some changes to mine. :(
 
Old 01-29-2003, 04:34 PM   #50
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Hi,

I just put up a few pages on Modeling for Articulation. I hope to get more done this week.

http://www.hippydrome.com/ModelArt.htm

On the eye spirl thingie, I try to have my directional change (a point that is shared by five polys) happen in the same plane (front view). Example on this page below. Look at the corner on the inner part of the eye. You can see the direction change happen on the lower part of the brow and directly below that by the bottom eye lid

http://www.hippydrome.com/EyeLidsUD.htm

Crazy....


Have a nice day.

HippyDrome
 
Old 01-29-2003, 06:58 PM   #51
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That's a great resource, Hippydrome. Thanks for making it available. One thing, though--I'm a little confused about your definition of "span".
 
Old 01-29-2003, 07:03 PM   #52
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Hi,

I use "span" as the line that connects a row of ponts (CV's).

Hope that helps.

Thanks,

HippyDrome
 
Old 01-29-2003, 07:41 PM   #53
Laa-Yosh
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Re: I want to learn from you guys!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by jenga
can you guys do a screen capture tutorial, modeling a head for ppl like me who want to learn????


The problem with that - in my case - is that my work style isn't totally clean. I tend to rework parts of the model, jump between different areas without any logical reason, and so on. I don't think you could learn much from that, other than how to model that exact kind of object.

The more important things to learn are guidelines and rules; why you should or should not do something; or how you should do it. I belive that the easiest way is to learn by trial and error, by doing this stuff again and again. You model a head, texture and animate it, then compare it with the work of others to find differences. You try to explore new approaches, you re-read lots of stuff again, after you've gained new perspective through experience, and so on.

Oh, and a good eye is also important; you must be able to really measure up your work and detect problems and glitches. You have to train your sight for this, which once again requires a lot of practice
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Old 01-29-2003, 08:09 PM   #54
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HippyDrome, your site is very interesting...

The topology of your control mesh is pretty clean and ordered - it's actually very similar looking to a bunch of NURBS surfaces patched together. So it seems that you only make use of one advantage of subdivs; that it is one single surface without heavy mathematics to keep it in one piece. But you give up the other very important advantage and that is to localize detail (however you can do it with hierarchical editing). This implies that when you want to add more detail into an area, you'll end up adding vertices to other areas as well. For example the elbow and knee areas of your mesh are very dense; and you still don't have too much definition there. I can see your reasoning behind this, that you most likely want to have a very smooth derived surface; I sometimes end up reworking my meshes for the same reasons. But I wouldn't give up on localized detail for many reasons; like, my machine is quite slow :)

A few areas on your model that could use more localized detail are for example the eyebrow (it has detail, but it's continued in the skull area too) and the corners of the eyes on the face; and the nee/elbow areas lack definition as I've mentioned above. All IMHO of course.

Also, the size of your datasets can become pretty important as well, more vertices mean larger scene files and longer render times. I've just seen a character yesterday that had a 200 MB RIB file (no mistake, 200 megs for one character!) - had it been built with such a 'clean' mesh, it would've taken at least two times as much space. And all this data has to bee sent to the renderfarm machines on a network, many many times... :)

By the way your skinning looks pretty nice and clean. Can we please get some insight to your methods? I'm about to skin 5 human characters in Maya and we can say that I'm really scared about it... ;)
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Old 01-30-2003, 12:00 AM   #55
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I want to thank Lunatique for starting this thread and ThirdEye_01 for dragging me in. Without it I would never have forced myself to come up with a - for me - new mesh. It was quite a tour the force to keep all those trķes under the carpet manipulating an old mesh. Looking back it had probably been faster if I had started all over.
Although it's now more or less similar to what everbody else uses, I'm pretty content with it.

http://www.bunk.cistron.nl/plaatjes...development.jpg

Cheers,

bunk
 
Old 01-30-2003, 12:10 AM   #56
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Hi,

If you use localize controls how do you assign the cluster wt groups to them in the low cage version?

Thanks for your coments Laa-Yosh.

I use hand wted clusters to drive the points into postion. The skinning is just using translation before rotations of the bone. I set up indvidual translation cluster sets for the x,y,z(alot of time they might not be exact) and hook to the bone rotation.

Cheers
 
Old 01-30-2003, 12:49 AM   #57
Laa-Yosh
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HippyDrome:
Jeez, setting up clusters for facial animation would be too much for me
I use blend shapes, for individual areas of the face like yo do, so for eyebrow, eye, mouth, cheeck and so on. you can then combine them to create various expressions, and can have almost full control over each vertex. I'm quite sure that this method could be taken a bit further by creating transitional shapes (especially for mouth movement) that are activated automatically.
Also, localized detail can be put to good use with this method as I can model relaxed and activated poses for each wrinkle area on the face, and can precisely define how each vertex is moving to create the effect of skin sliding over muscles and bone.

Here's a shot from some initial shapes. Eyebrow targets will be taken apart for left and right side; same could go with blink and mouth shapes if needed.
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Old 01-30-2003, 01:17 AM   #58
ThirdEye
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Quote:
Originally posted by bunk
I want to thank Lunatique for starting this thread and ThirdEye_01 for dragging me in. Without it I would never have forced myself to come up with a - for me - new mesh. It was quite a tour the force to keep all those trķes under the carpet manipulating an old mesh. Looking back it had probably been faster if I had started all over.
Although it's now more or less similar to what everbody else uses, I'm pretty content with it.

http://www.bunk.cistron.nl/plaatjes...development.jpg

Cheers,

bunk



Nice new mesh Bunk, your work's always amazed me, I'm happy you came in this thread
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:24 PM   #59
HippyDrome
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Hi Laa-Yosh,

That is a neet idea with your blend shapes but I articulate using clusters to move around points and do not use blend shapes. Just a different approach to the problem. :o)

Cheers,

HippyDrome
 
Old 01-30-2003, 08:22 PM   #60
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when you use clusters are you using them in Maya or Soft. I use Max and blend shape seems to be the only real option for facial animation.
 
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