Topology research

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  01 January 2003
hello guys.... i am scared to post in a thread with so many nice things. but i wanted to show my topology.
this girl
i made from scratch... but i have also played with using a generic layout and i got some really great results.. i made this gargoyle
and this child
both from the same head.
there is very little difference between the 2 aside from the start of the childs hair, and the ears on the gargoyle.
the mesh that i used to start them from isn't all that good and i want to make a new one. i really feel it's a great way to go.

Last edited by 9rin : 01 January 2003 at 07:13 PM.
  01 January 2003
Quote: I love where this thread is going. It's turning out to be the "gathering of good topology" thread.

Yep, "you show me yours, I'll show you mine" ;)

I've nothing basically to add since all meshes that will do the job are fine as far as I'm concerned. And of course I also tend to believe I'm using THE basic mesh. About which I do have a question. I'm using a loop (the extra one in the second picture) that starts on the nose bridge, circles the eye, passes the nose wing and ends up under the mouth. Here is a picture showing the UVW poly mesh left out the subs for eyes and mouth.

I don't think it's a loop no one ever thought of before. So my question is how comes it's hardly used, if at all? Just curious.

...and two pictures done with it.



Last edited by bunk : 01 January 2003 at 10:20 PM.
  01 January 2003
Here's mine. It's light enough to be easily tweekable (and making it even lighter still, if need be, is as simple as selecting an edgerow and collapsing etc), but it's complete enough that I don't have to do the monkey work it takes to get to this point.

[edit] Damn I am tired, should've cropped that [edit]
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  01 January 2003
hey guys thanks for posting the wires, this is really helpful, i'm learning loads, keep posting!
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  01 January 2003
The only reasson I can see why not to do that loop is that it might be hard to control the shape of the hollow at the base of the nostril when posing it for blend shapes... BUT I do like how it organizes the geometry of the cheek.

MySpace CGPortfolio
  01 January 2003
Yes I turn it into a SubD, and tweak the higher levels, and keep them separate (no collapsing). I've gone back and forth many many times to ensure I get the 0-level configuration that will look best as a SubD. For instance, the 4 triangles meeting in each nostril must look strange but trust me it works excellently.

I'm a bit leery of loops, the real face has no such large looping structures so it can be a bit misleading to try too hard to find edge-loops in it... ok there are some circular or semi-circular muscle groups but I'm also not too fond of letting the muscles decide topology.
IMO only 2 things should guide topology:
1. real surface topology (shape), both neutral and grimacing
2. major wrinkles, both neutral and grimacing

Here's a couple portraits I've marked to clarify what I meant about that nose-ridge, and the corners of the mouth and eye.

Also note, on the guy, the typical doubled-semi-colon shape that's created by the nasolabial folds as they run into the chin, together with the next wrinkle parallell to it. Almost every single person on the planet shows something quite similar. (Although a few have the nasolabial fold hooking up a bit lower on the chin.)

Last edited by Stahlberg : 01 January 2003 at 07:22 AM.
  01 January 2003
I totally agree with Steven that only the actual wrinkles you see should be considered.

Time and time again, people model very detailed faces, but with the wrong topology. I wonder how those faces animate?

Here are some of the most obvious wrinkles we see on humans, yet, most face models out there don't follow these wrinkles. I wonder why?

Last edited by Lunatique : 02 February 2003 at 04:05 PM.
  01 January 2003
An aside.

Have you all noticed how music videos and commercials blur out those wrinkles weve been talking about on the female actor/model/ singers?

Now that I'm aware of it it looks pretty obvious.


Thanks Steven Looks like I can still learn a few things!

MySpace CGPortfolio

Last edited by RichSuchy : 01 January 2003 at 09:04 AM.
  01 January 2003
Thanks everyone for all the great pics and discussion. I wish I had something to add, but I'm just posting so I can be notified if there are additional tips!
  01 January 2003
Great post!
This is exactly what I have been looking for. I find it a bit difficult to decide where I should place my edgeloops, but now I have several good references to get me started.

Thanks guys

  01 January 2003

This is a subject that I am working on a web page for. I am an articulator and this is the kind of dense mesh we use for film at out studio. I have been refining this one for the last few months. It is designed based on the type of deformation that I use in combo with each other. Some of the main points I use when modeling our vertical spans through the mouth. This helps stop shearing when the LCorner of the mouth is pull out to the side and up towards the eye. I also like to use this through the eye but with a bit of radial formation. The brow I try to keep the spans running horizontal to the eyes and loop down around the corner. All spans are keped as close to a neutral pose.

Here is a link to some of my examples.


  01 January 2003
HippyDrome : That site is absolutely nifty. I'm not advanced enough to get half of it, but you can be sure I'll study it till I do! Making a skeleton to use as a guide in joint deformations is a lovely idea. Looking forward to seeing the site finished!

Do you people realize that I could've saved almost a year of screwing around with mindlessly confusing wrecks that were supposed to be heads, if I could have taken just ONE look at this thread back when I started modeling? This is awesome! I could scream!!

Seriously, this information needs to be compiled someplace. Maybe a sticky thread, or even a CG Festival feature, or something, you think? A list of the best sites-- like the hobbitguy's site, and The Human Head site, if that ever gets back up... and we could see if Syomka would add in a couple wires too, so we'd have his and Stahlberg's unique approaches-- heck, we could ask lots of people to show their head meshes, and the good ones could be put in a nifty little 'CGtalk Head Topology' gallery... whaddaya think?

Last edited by gnarlycranium : 01 January 2003 at 11:25 PM.
  01 January 2003

Thanks for your coments.

I have a whole section on the body coming on line this weekend. This will deal more with the spans in the body.


  01 January 2003
Hay Lunatique,

Nice thread you started here, when starting out it always helps to see how the "pro's" put things together.

One thing, not sure if its just me, but on the first page, your first two links and the links on this page pop-up with protected and ask me to log-in to get to the images. The other image links work, fine just not those.

PS. nice looking wife, and supportive, both of which really helps with this stuff
  01 January 2003
Oops, sorry about that. I had put a password on it to secure the directory to my short film, but I had put those images in that folder... I'll fix it.
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